US Presidential Debate: Page 45 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

US Presidential Debate

lorddulaarsenal

Is an astounding feat that he's achieved though. None of hear would be capable of this, so to sit here and not recognise his strengths is silly

QuincyAbeyie

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Trump is a brilliant communicator. If he wasn't he wouldn't have won the election.

Why is that? If two bad communicators are up against each other, one of them must be brilliant?

Bold Tone

How much real power does the POTUS actually hold, btw?
I ask as i remember a Reagan with signs of dementia and the simpleton Dubya.

ElGeniodeOviedo

Bold Tone wrote:
How much real power does the POTUS actually hold, btw?
I ask as i remember a Reagan with signs of dementia and the simpleton Dubya.

Individually, the power of the role is overstated but has grown since Bush and, regrettably Obama as well, took steps to increase the office's power. The real danger is that the Republicans also possess the House and the Senate.

mags

Bold Tone wrote:
mags wrote:
The stuff on this thread is unbelievable.
...

The vast majority of posts here are non-Americans twisting themselves into knots trying to work out how you guys, unbelievably, voted in such a loon. How else can we react?

First of all she WON the popular vote by almost 200,000 votes. The American people voted for her. The Electoral College gave the office to him. Some consider the EC archaic, anti democratic. But the rules stand until changed.

Comments that rubbed me the wrong way.
Like she is not statesmanlike. Did people watch the debates?
Like her voice isn't good. How shallow is that?
Like Trump being a brilliant communicator? Gads, don't people know a con man when they hear him?
Like your comment about the stream of celebrity endorsements worked as a backlash. I don't think so. Doubt if that had any effect on the election.
There were a couple more, but I am too tired to look them up, and it's not what I want to do.

Don't you get it ? Europeans, Brits especially, should be able to relate to what has happened. Brexit. Period. How do urban Brits feel?
When that happened, when LePen gained power, when right wing movements throughout Europe have been flexing their muscles, some of us on this side of the ocean, were tied in knots. This election is part of a world wide movement. Even the most powerful can't avoid it.

It's one election, there will be another federal election in a couple of years. All House seats will be up for grabs. 33 Senate seats will be on the line. On the state level, 36 governorship positions will be on the line. I don't know if that will give the fascist loony tune enough time to do his homework on how governance works, how American democracy works, how diplomacy works. If he doesn't learn the Art of the Compromise, this particular kind of change experiment may be doomed to failure.

In addition, he has serious problems of his own. Trump University's massive fraud case comes to trial soon. Potential serious conflicts of interests between his business interests and his family taking over those interests.

With this catastrophic presidential result, we can look back at other dark periods which were considered devastating enough to end this American democracy, Civil War, segregation, McCarthyism, Japanese internment, Vietnam, slavery. They have been overcome. Two steps forward, one step back.

Rough times ahead. Fight the good fight, fight the fascist, respect the natural world, do all with dignity.

lorddulaarsenal

A con man can still be a good communicator

lorddulaarsenal

Infact I'd argue that's a strength of a con man

Mirth

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Is an astounding feat that he's achieved though. None of hear would be capable of this, so to sit here and not recognise his strengths is silly

I'm not sure what your logic is at all, no one's downplayed his achievement in becoming President of the United States.

But conversely that doesn't make his communication/candour/hairstyle - 'brilliant'. Winning the White House doesn't retrospectively make everything he's done perfect and, by your own admission, Clinton made you want to cut your ears off.

lorddulaarsenal

Just feel too many are ignorant to Trump's strengths

Hey it's no biggy to me. I wouldn't want him as President of my country, but it's the way it is and you just have to crack on with things

lorddulaarsenal

Anyways

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/us-election-put-into-perspective-by-toblerone-crisis-20161108116718

goon

I don't think they're ignorent of his strengths, I just don't think they care much in light of the racism, sexism, sexual assault, lies, bullying, tax evasion and last but not least some of the god awful (non)policies he's got planned.

mags

Well, Dula, I have been listening to Trump for many years. He struck me from the first time I heard him that he was a shallow sort of a huckster. I was surprised then and am still mystified by how many people are taken in by his nonsense. Well, maybe you are right, con man equals good communicator. But the message, man, the message. Are people listening, actually listening.

lorddulaarsenal

Mags I feel for you. The man's a cretin

lorddulaarsenal

I do actually think the UK will benefit from him being in office though

lorddulaarsenal

When I was in the States a few weeks back I got a sense that Trump would get in. Everyone was a bit coy in discussions about him. I was talking to decent folk too. Big ol' silent majority

mags

Where we disagree, Dula, is Trump's strengths. To me he doesn't have any. In Bill Maher's words, he is "a whiny little bitch" who got his start through his father, said father having secured him loans from big banks when the banks would not lend him a penny. Who had a few business successes (thanks Dad) and as many disasters, whose private life has turned into a cash cow for the Daily Mail and company. Whose comportment as a presidential candidate is not a model I espouse for anyone to emulate, especially children. Who was lucky enough to be surrounded by a group of weak-minded candidates in the primary. Who is a man who behaves like a third world dictator, who found the ugly seam of unhappy, racist Americans and knew how to exploit it. Who started the birther movement. He appeals to the worst in all of us. And I am still waiting for the tax returns.

Bold Tone

mags wrote:
Bold Tone wrote:
The vast majority of posts here are non-Americans twisting themselves into knots trying to work out how you guys, unbelievably, voted in such a loon. How else can we react?

First of all she WON the popular vote by almost 200,000 votes. The American people voted for her. The Electoral College gave the office to him. Some consider the EC archaic, anti democratic. But the rules stand until changed.

Comments that rubbed me the wrong way.
Like she is not statesmanlike. Did people watch the debates?
Like her voice isn't good. How shallow is that?
Like Trump being a brilliant communicator? Gads, don't people know a con man when they hear him?
Like your comment about the stream of celebrity endorsements worked as a backlash. I don't think so. Doubt if that had any effect on the election.
There were a couple more, but I am too tired to look them up, and it's not what I want to do.

Don't you get it ? Europeans, Brits especially, should be able to relate to what has happened. Brexit. Period. How do urban Brits feel?
When that happened, when LePen gained power, when right wing movements throughout Europe have been flexing their muscles, some of us on this side of the ocean, were tied in knots. This election is part of a world wide movement. Even the most powerful can't avoid it.

It's one election, there will be another federal election in a couple of years. All House seats will be up for grabs. 33 Senate seats will be on the line. On the state level, 36 governorship positions will be on the line. I don't know if that will give the fascist loony tune enough time to do his homework on how governance works, how American democracy works, how diplomacy works. If he doesn't learn the Art of the Compromise, this particular kind of change experiment may be doomed to failure.

In addition, he has serious problems of his own. Trump University's massive fraud case comes to trial soon. Potential serious conflicts of interests between his business interests and his family taking over those interests.

With this catastrophic presidential result, we can look back at other dark periods which were considered devastating enough to end this American democracy, Civil War, segregation, McCarthyism, Japanese internment, Vietnam, slavery. They have been overcome. Two steps forward, one step back.

Rough times ahead. Fight the good fight, fight the fascist, respect the natural world, do all with dignity.

Winning the popular vote is like winning possession stats.
Meaningless.

As for my comment, i was trying to work out how her lead evaporated in the last few days when her campaign flooded the media with a stream of celebrity endorsements.

You bring up Brexit but, with due respect, this is no contest as the US election is of worldwide significance.

I've already mentioned the system of checks and balances which ensures limitations on the power of the POTUS so you can rest assured he cannot do whatever he pleases. He hasn't got the full support of the Republican house so this will weaken him more not to mention the vote in 2 years time where the inevitable backlash will help the democrats win more seats.

As for him being a brilliant commentator, every reply has shot that down but the fact is his aimless ramblings somehow ended up defeating the clinton's prepped comments for reasons only you americans can answer.

lorddulaarsenal

Yeah Brexit against this is minuscule

America done baaad

y va marquer

Reality TV, social media – without either we would not have seen the rise of Trump.

It’s not that he’s a good communicator it’s that he’s had years of exposure on a platform that’s supposedly shows us the “real Donald” - those who voted for him think that they know him warts and all – a tough business man shooting from the hip, taking no prisoners, fighting the establishment and the political elite blah blah blah.

The notion that he’ll be jumping on board with the most established of establishments in the Republican elite doesn’t seem to matter – I guess when those angry white folk think establishment and elite they think Democrat and Clintons

To reduce the competition to it’s faux reality show basics (because that what it ended up as) in the eyes of his voting public it was the sexist, boorish, antagonistic, independent but “honest” older business man v the shrill, coldly professional, straightlaced, dull, dishonest old woman.

In this post-truth era we’re going to see more of these cynical f**kwits with zero vision land some powerful positions on the back of pandering to the troll masses and telling them what they want to hear

y va marquer

Oh I heard on the radio that Kroenke donated to the Clinton campaign and that the Glazers donated to Trump - commentator sneered "typical Arsenal, always on the losing side"
Grrrrr!!!

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