HOUSEBOAT - Warning: tenuous links ahead!: Page 421 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

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QuincyAbeyie

But Klaus, you have to consider this:

Sicario wrote:
Arteta did the double over him this season anyway.

Brighton's and Arsenal's squads are of pretty similar quality and cost, so this is clearly a good measurement. Doesn't look good on Potter, that.

Klaus

I wonder if this means we should bring in Sean Dyche since he took 4 points against Arteta this season.

Rohit

How was Arteta Arsenal material? He had proven nothing. Regardless where one stands on a name like Potter, you can't be discussing Arsenal standards while backing Arteta and I think it's fine to back Arteta but the lofty language is out of place at this moment.

Klaus

That's what I'm getting at. I've seen enough from Potter in Sweden and at Brighton to be convinced that he's a very rare type of manager who's capable of transforming a club, very much like Wenger back in the 90s, and I think it's what we need because we're not going to be transformed by any massive investments. It helps that he's excellent at working with youth players and is tactically sharp too.

I'm completely aware that Potter would be a chance that might not work out though, and I don't blame people if they want to play a safer manager card next time. But has the fuck has Arteta done to be considered a better option? We appointed a bloke who had never managed a football team before and he has led us to our two worst league finishes in 30 years, but this is what would lower our standards?

Sicario

Rohit wrote:
How was Arteta Arsenal material? He had proven nothing. Regardless where one stands on a name like Potter, you can't be discussing Arsenal standards while backing Arteta and I think it's fine to back Arteta but the lofty language is out of place at this moment.

Proven nothing? At least he has got a trophy next to his name.

Yes, this season was a car-crash but willing to give him his first pre-season and work under 'normal conditions' post Corona (hopefully).

Arteta played for Arsenal, captained our first trophy winning side in 9 years and on the whole I have liked his press conferences, how he's carried himself so there is more affection with him hence willing to give him another chance.

If we are 5-6 more points outside of top 4 by Dec and have shown no real signs of improvement I want him out though so I hope that shows I am not that deluded either. There are ZERO excuses for Arteta next season.

QuincyAbeyie

Sicario wrote:
Rohit wrote:
How was Arteta Arsenal material? He had proven nothing. Regardless where one stands on a name like Potter, you can't be discussing Arsenal standards while backing Arteta and I think it's fine to back Arteta but the lofty language is out of place at this moment.

Proven nothing? At least he has got a trophy next to his name.

He didn't have that trophy when we hired him. That's the entire point.

Sicario

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Sicario wrote:
Proven nothing? At least he has got a trophy next to his name.

He didn't have that trophy when we hired him. That's the entire point.

Why do you think Pep (arguably GOAT manager) hired him in the first place as his assistant? Did he lose a bet?

QuincyAbeyie

That would only be relevant if Potter was looking for an assistant position and Guardiola chose to hire Arteta.

flobaba

Sicario wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
He didn't have that trophy when we hired him. That's the entire point.

Why do you think Pep (arguably GOAT manager) hired him in the first place as his assistant? Did he lose a bet?

Who is Pep’s assistant now? Would you make whoever it is manager of Arsenal today?

Qwiss

Klaus wrote:
That's what I'm getting at. I've seen enough from Potter in Sweden and at Brighton to be convinced that he's a very rare type of manager who's capable of transforming a club, very much like Wenger back in the 90s, and I think it's what we need because we're not going to be transformed by any massive investments. It helps that he's excellent at working with youth players and is tactically sharp too.

I'm completely aware that Potter would be a chance that might not work out though, and I don't blame people if they want to play a safer manager card next time. But has the fuck has Arteta done to be considered a better option? We appointed a bloke who had never managed a football team before and he has led us to our two worst league finishes in 30 years, but this is what would lower our standards?

My hesitation on Potter is that while he seems like a good manager, plays nice football, has good underlying stats, etc He hasn't really achieved much at the clubs he's at. Keeping Brighton in the PL is fine but they haven't really managed to get away from that dog fight, Hughton was sacked because they were 17th but Potters finished 15th and 16th, its not a lot better. Same at Swansea, he did fine but nothing to write home about, never got them close to coming back up. I know he did great things for Ostersund but thats not really relevant when it comes to this level IMO.

Dunno just feels like a manager who'll ever win a major league.

Klaus

Sicario wrote:
Yes, this season was a car-crash but willing to give him his first pre-season and work under 'normal conditions' post Corona (hopefully).

Arteta played for Arsenal, captained our first trophy winning side in 9 years and on the whole I have liked his press conferences, how he's carried himself so there is more affection with him hence willing to give him another chance.

Yeah, but why don't you just say so then? Those are legitimate reasons, but why do you have to come in and taunt people and pretend standards have fallen because they would take a punt on a manager who lacks experience at this level, when our current one is the epitome of an inexperienced nobody without a good CV?

BWooley

Qwiss! wrote:
Klaus wrote:
That's what I'm getting at. I've seen enough from Potter in Sweden and at Brighton to be convinced that he's a very rare type of manager who's capable of transforming a club, very much like Wenger back in the 90s, and I think it's what we need because we're not going to be transformed by any massive investments. It helps that he's excellent at working with youth players and is tactically sharp too.

I'm completely aware that Potter would be a chance that might not work out though, and I don't blame people if they want to play a safer manager card next time. But has the fuck has Arteta done to be considered a better option? We appointed a bloke who had never managed a football team before and he has led us to our two worst league finishes in 30 years, but this is what would lower our standards?

My hesitation on Potter is that while he seems like a good manager, plays nice football, has good underlying stats, etc He hasn't really achieved much at the clubs he's at. Keeping Brighton in the PL is fine but they haven't really managed to get away from that dog fight, Hughton was sacked because they were 17th but Potters finished 15th and 16th, its not a lot better. Same at Swansea, he did fine but nothing to write home about, never got them close to coming back up. I know he did great things for Ostersund but thats not really relevant when it comes to this level IMO.

Dunno just feels like a manager who'll ever win a major league.

Winning a major league is so far away from what I expect from our next manager (or even Arteta, if he changes and evolves next season). The next manager has to be our Pochettino, who puts us in the conversation for top 3 every year and finishes there more often than not, i.e. does better than 3 of the "top 6" each year. Winning the league comes later, when we can look for our Guardiola / Klopp. I think we are no longer in the times when an Arsene Wenger can come in and finish 2nd in his first full year - the league's too competitive for that at the top end. The question is whether Potter can do that. More than tactics and xGs, what I don't know (frankly because I don't follow Brighton more than anything else) is his man-management, motivational skills, pulling the team out of a rut, etc. At least to me, those soft skills matter more than tactics in a managerial role.

Qwiss

I'm not saying I don't think Potter would win the PL with us, I'm saying I don't think he has it in him to win it with anyone. I think he's met expectations and not much more at Swansea and Brighton so I'd expect to finish 5th or 6th with us while playing nice football. It'd be better than Arteta sure but I'd hope for better from whoever replaces Arteta eventually.

Jed

Sicario wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
He didn't have that trophy when we hired him. That's the entire point.

Why do you think Pep (arguably GOAT manager) hired him in the first place as his assistant? Did he lose a bet?

Should’ve just given the job to Steve Bould then because Wenger (arguably GOAT manager) ‘hired’ him as his assistant.

Ricky1985

BWooley wrote:
Winning a major league is so far away from what I expect from our next manager (or even Arteta, if he changes and evolves next season). The next manager has to be our Pochettino, who puts us in the conversation for top 3 every year and finishes there more often than not, i.e. does better than 3 of the "top 6" each year. Winning the league comes later, when we can look for our Guardiola / Klopp. I think we are no longer in the times when an Arsene Wenger can come in and finish 2nd in his first full year - the league's too competitive for that at the top end. The question is whether Potter can do that. More than tactics and xGs, what I don't know (frankly because I don't follow Brighton more than anything else) is his man-management, motivational skills, pulling the team out of a rut, etc. At least to me, those soft skills matter more than tactics in a managerial role.

Arsene Wenger won the Double in his first full season.

BWooley

You are right, so he did. I stand corrected.

Clrnc

Jed wrote:
Sicario wrote:
Why do you think Pep (arguably GOAT manager) hired him in the first place as his assistant? Did he lose a bet?

Should’ve just given the job to Steve Bould then because Wenger (arguably GOAT manager) ‘hired’ him as his assistant.

😆

mentalvortex

Camavinga has declared to Rennes that he wants to join PSG and two clubs have started negotiations for a sale.

It was good to believe for a short while that we had a chance and the player wanted to come here.

goon

I don't think he was right for us anyway. If you want to keep Xhaka out of the first XI or out of the club altogether and move up the table I don't think an inconsistent 18yr old is the way to go.

Qwiss

Especially if we are sticking with Arteta.

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