HOUSEBOAT - Warning: tenuous links ahead!: Page 393 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

HOUSEBOAT - Warning: tenuous links ahead!

Ray

speedy wrote:
Ray wrote:
What's mental is that we are looking to loan him out for a second season when we have guys like Mustafi and Luiz starting games.

Perfect opportunity to bed in a young, potential world class defender into the PL whilst we rebuild the side, in a transition season where 10th in the league is considered acceptable by some.

You spend £30m on an investment, you don't then proceed to freeze him out. Next season the expectations will be much higher on Arteta to deliver, the worst time to introduce a young defender into the side..

Wasnt Luiz just brilliant against leister? While Saliba passed straight to the opposition to gift them a goal? or was that the week before?

By most accounts of people who have watched Saliba, he's had a brilliant loan spell, I read a stat where no opposition player has successfully dribbled past him since he joined them, the type of stats we saw with Van Dijk. But yeah Luiz didn't fuck up against Leicester so well worth all the other mistakes he has made.

Either way we were always going to get a defender who makes the odd mistake here and there, because he's young and learning. Which is why this season would have been perfect for him, where the team is in transition. Rather than play an old guy like Luiz who isn't going to offer anything in the long term and not much in the short term either.

Claudius

Ray wrote:
speedy wrote:
Wasnt Luiz just brilliant against leister? While Saliba passed straight to the opposition to gift them a goal? or was that the week before?

By most accounts of people who have watched Saliba, he's had a brilliant loan spell, I read a stat where no opposition player has successfully dribbled past him since he joined them, the type of stats we saw with Van Dijk. But yeah Luiz didn't fuck up against Leicester so well worth all the other mistakes he has made.

Yup. Nice won on Wednesday, and Saliba continued that streak of nobody dribbling past him. The kid is a boss. Guys like Holding are already calling dibs on the best bench spots.

goon

The dribbled past stat is complete houseboat for central defenders, they're rarely in situations to be dribbled past and when they are it's usually a mistake. Luiz hasn't been dribbled past all season either. I've no idea why the VVD stat was so hyped up.

goon

But yeah, I hope all these stories are nonsense, Arteta and Edu need to look at where we are actually weak, and even at our worst this season, centre back has never been an area of concern.

Claudius

goon wrote:
The dribbled past stat is complete houseboat for central defenders, they're rarely in situations to be dribbled past and when they are it's usually a mistake. Luiz hasn't been dribbled past all season either. I've no idea why the VVD stat was so hyped up.

because the red tops and the guys in the studio got their hands on it and went wild. that's why.

when VVD wasn't being dribbled past at Liverpool, it was largely a sign that the Liverpool press was being effective. he was just there to recycle balls for the most part. that should've been the take away from that stat at the time. the people in real danger of being dribbled past are fullbacks because they tend to be going up against speedy wingers and fullbacks

Ray

Yeah that is more relevant for full backs or central midfielders, but he also has one of the highest clearances per game in Ligue 1.

Claudius

his passing, dribbling and carrying stats are amongst the highest in the continent for a defender. much higher than anyone on our team. only Gabriel matches him for progressive carries. on the ball, he's untouchable.

He's the perfect Arteta player. He has great ability for building up play from the back either through longer passes to the wings or through gradual build-up via wall passes with the CMs.

goon

He's clearly a good defender to be honest, his stats were always very good as was the general talk surrounding him from people in the know. Whatever happened this year, it would be a crime if he wasn't given a real shot next season.

Clrnc

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
speedy wrote:
1+1 =2

It wasn't the deal we got when we signed him. We started looking for another year because it benefitted us. The second year wasn't some demand from ASSE to make a deal, nor was it something we offered to make them accept our bid, it was a separate thing we chose to do later. We chose to do this because it's better for us to have young players actually playing than rotting away, while you make it out as if though we've made some sacrifice by not having him with the U23s for these two years. No need to go all Big Shaq with your math lessons.

Yep. It's insane suddenly there's a notion that St Etienne robbed us by demanding 2 years loan and 30m fee. Total revision.

speedy

Has anyone said that? That they robbed us? They had the chance of having him for a second loan year after the first year ended which would be a 2 year deal in total all in all. it's a deal so good nobody can think of a single case where its happened before. I was suggesting the naritive we're the bad guys is nuts.

What I wasn't suggesting was than it was a 2 year loan initially, it was a one year loan then negotiation for another one year deal which I assumed everyone knew.

QuincyAbeyie

It's easy to find someone who got a better deal. Us.

speedy

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
It's easy to find someone who got a better deal. Us.

Great as I mentioned previously then- name a few examples of times a club has bought a player for 30m where thr selling club then got to have him back on loan for 2 seasons?

QuincyAbeyie

Why would I need to find examples of such a specific situation? 😆 It's ridiculous. Not sure what would be the point in it either, to prove that they didn't get a bad deal? Nobody said they did. In every transfer unless there's a release clause the clubs do the deal because they think it's better for them to do it than not to do it.

Clrnc

The 30m deal didn't involve having Saliba back 2 seasons on loan. That's not true.

What happened is we quickly decided Saliba wasn't worth having around after training sessions and decided to loan him out. St Etienne of course was interested in having him back. We are willing loaners. You are misrepresenting the initial deal which was a 1 year loan back requirement which is very common in football with young players.

speedy

Clrnc wrote:
The 30m deal didn't involve having Saliba back 2 seasons on loan. That's not true.

What happened is we quickly decided Saliba wasn't worth having around after training sessions and decided to loan him out. St Etienne of course was interested in having him back. We are willing loaners. You are misrepresenting the initial deal which was a 1 year loan back requirement which is very common in football with young players.

I'm not trying to suggest it was included in the original deal.

Claudius

speedy wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
The 30m deal didn't involve having Saliba back 2 seasons on loan. That's not true.

What happened is we quickly decided Saliba wasn't worth having around after training sessions and decided to loan him out. St Etienne of course was interested in having him back. We are willing loaners. You are misrepresenting the initial deal which was a 1 year loan back requirement which is very common in football with young players.

I'm not trying to suggest it was included in the original deal.

Give up, Speedy 😆

goon

I think the point speedy is trying to make is that ASSE releasing a statement full of vitriol against us and purporting to speak on Saliba's behalf too, criticising us for not getting a second loan deal done for a player they got £30m for, is pretty shitty. As was their indignation when we refused to agree to their terms so that they could loan him back for the cup final, including giving them a million or two for the pleasure. They're a crass, classless club that don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

speedy

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Why would I need to find examples of such a specific situation? 😆 It's ridiculous. Not sure what would be the point in it either, to prove that they didn't get a bad deal? Nobody said they did. In every transfer unless there's a release clause the clubs do the deal because they think it's better for them to do it than not to do it.

I suggested we weren't the bad guys in the deal. They got a great offer. Getting 30m for a player and a year loan. And then being offed thr chance to have him for another year loan. That's a dream situation for them. We're not the bad guys, that was my suggestion. I've no real idea what you're on about apart from wanting to argue.

QuincyAbeyie

It has never been in question whether it was preferable for ASSE to have Saliba on loan or not, it's whether we fucked up by not getting him that loan. You've gone totally off the rails.

Coombs

Don't you get it, speedy? Arsenal must be the subject of derision and ridicule in every conversation. Don't beat yourself up, you'll get the hang of it.

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