HOUSEBOAT - Warning: tenuous links ahead!: Page 387 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

HOUSEBOAT - Warning: tenuous links ahead!

Klaus

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
If Laca leaves (which he should) I don't want an experienced option, I want the player who'll eventually take over for Auba.

Longterm plans like that rarely work out I feel. You're either good enough to take a spot or you're not. I can't think of many examples where it was handed over just because the main player got old.

When Auba no longer holds up we're probably gonna have to go big again. If there's one lesson to learn from last time it's to not settle for a Lacazette. Go the extra mile and get the champagne player.

Claudius

Klaus wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
If Laca leaves (which he should) I don't want an experienced option, I want the player who'll eventually take over for Auba.

Longterm plans like that rarely work out I feel. You're either good enough to take a spot or you're not. I can't think of many examples where it was handed over just because the main player got old.

When Auba no longer holds up we're probably gonna have to go big again. If there's one lesson to learn from last time it's to not settle for a Lacazette. Go the extra mile and get the champagne player.

Yeah, but Klaus, you want us to put money into a Celtic striker who should start behind Aubameyang next year anyway. We can potentially ride Aubameyang like Saurez, Cavani, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Zlatan, and Vardy. All experienced strikers who are performing at a high level into their 30s. Other than Vardy, the rest form the list of top scorers of the 2010s apart from Messi.

What will be more impactful to the team is a Partey partner. If we are able to play most games with 2 Parteys, this team's goes up another level. When Partey1 is sick, Partey2 will be able to play with Elneny etc and still give us a strong midfield. An Edouard cannot give us that impact.

As per Quincy, for now put the money into Auba's successors.

Klaus

Claudius wrote:
Yeah, but Klaus, you want us to put money into a Celtic striker who should start behind Aubameyang next year anyway.

I just said I don't want Edouard based on what I've seen from him.

I agree that Auba will probably last beyond his current contract (you probably remember last week when I was the one who made the point that all the best players in all the top leagues at the moment are old guys), but you can't predict these things with confidence when an injury, a single bad tackle or an unfortunate landing, can screw everything up. I reckon Zlatan would still be at United if he hadn't done his knee for instance.

Claudius

Klaus wrote:
Claudius wrote:
Yeah, but Klaus, you want us to put money into a Celtic striker who should start behind Aubameyang next year anyway.

I just said I don't want Edouard based on what I've seen from him.

I agree that Auba will probably last beyond his current contract (you probably remember last week when I was the one who made the point that all the best players in all the top leagues at the moment are old guys), but you can't predict these things with confidence when an injury, a single bad tackle or an unfortunate landing, can screw everything up. I reckon Zlatan would still be at United if he hadn't done his knee for instance.

Fair.
I'm with you on Edouard. And Aubameyang.
I just feel so bad that our chaos has cost him probably 10-15 goals already (and us Champions Leagues). I'd like to ride him to the fullest for the next 2 years.

KurtEisner

Sicario wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Why do people even talk about Balogun in this context when he has never made a first team start in any competition?

Not saying I want Edouard who I thought looked a bit shit in the two EL matches I saw this season, but if Laca goes we need an extra body. An experienced one, not one that struggles to stand out at U23 level.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee, he’s better than Eddie (who has played a total of 10 Premiership mins in two months).

And how many PL minutes has Balogun played in the last two months?

To say Balogun is better than Eddie is entirely based on the formers' performance at youth level, whilst judging Eddie exclusively on his first team appearances, disregarding that he is England's record goalscorer at U21 level.

goon

Martinelli is clearly Auba's understudy at the moment. If Auba moves to 9 then so should Martinelli in my opinion, there's your Auba replacement.

KurtEisner

I think Martinelli should stay at left wing, he's best when he has space to run at people, so unless we move to a counter attacking set-up I feel he'll be better as a winger than a pure striker.

Ray

Tbf Franny Jeffers also had a solid U21 record.

Claudius

goon wrote:
Martinelli is clearly Auba's understudy at the moment. If Auba moves to 9 then so should Martinelli in my opinion, there's your Auba replacement.

Boom

Klaus

Ray wrote:
Tbf Franny Jeffers also had a solid U21 record.

So Balogun's behind him too. Isn't that even less of an argument for him deserving playing time in the first team?

Ray

Klaus wrote:
Ray wrote:
Tbf Franny Jeffers also had a solid U21 record.

So Balogun's behind him too. Isn't that even less of an argument for him deserving playing time in the first team?

I think we shouldn’t be using Nketiah’s U21 record to make a decision on his future at Arsenal.

goon

Kurt Eisner wrote:
I think Martinelli should stay at left wing, he's best when he has space to run at people, so unless we move to a counter attacking set-up I feel he'll be better as a winger than a pure striker.

I thought the left was his best position too up until recently, but I think it limits his game too much. He ends up coming too deep and tracking back too much. That diagonal run we imagine from wide to centre ends up not materialising. It's the same story with Auba, maybe it's the system we play.

Either way, I actually don't think running at people is a particular strength of his. For me his best traits are his movement, aggression, pace/agility, work rate and finishing. His link play isn't bad at all either. I actually think he has all the tools to be a complete centre forward in the Suarez mould.

Gazza M

goon wrote:
Martinelli is clearly Auba's understudy at the moment. If Auba moves to 9 then so should Martinelli in my opinion, there's your Auba replacement.

his main qualities are his box movement, pace and finishing. his dribbling and link-up play, while decent, aren't his main strengths. he can do a job on the left to develop those qualities, but i see him in the middle long term as well

Klaus

That's an interesting view. I think of Marty the opposite way but maybe I'm wrong. Pace and dribbling are his main strengths to me, though, while his touch and ball control aren't really good enough. He has plenty of things in his locker but I don't think he will ever be anything else than a good striker. I think he could be a world class winger by contrast.

With guys like Henry and van Persie things were the other way around I reckon. Their technical ceiling was sky high so it made sense to let them develop their skills in wide positions while they were growing physically. I don't really see that with Martinelli though. He's electric, a force of nature when he gets going, but he's not a man for congested spaces and tight marking. He won't be a centreforward for the same reasons Alexis Sanchez never ended up as a striker, even though he had a lot of similar qualities to someone like Agüero on the surface.

KurtEisner

Klaus wrote:
That's an interesting view. I think of Marty the opposite way but maybe I'm wrong. Pace and dribbling are his main strengths to me, though, while his touch and ball control aren't really good enough. He has plenty of things in his locker but I don't think he will ever be anything else than a good striker. I think he could be a world class winger by contrast.

With guys like Henry and van Persie things were the other way around I reckon. Their technical ceiling was sky high so it made sense to let them develop their skills in wide positions while they were growing physically. I don't really see that with Martinelli though. He's electric, a force of nature when he gets going, but he's not a man for congested spaces and tight marking. He won't be a centreforward for the same reasons Alexis Sanchez never ended up as a striker, even though he had a lot of similar qualities to someone like Agüero on the surface.

I feel pretty much the same. I think he's at his best when he has the ball at his feet and enough space to get going, as a winger he'll get plenty of opportunities to overrun people, as a striker he'd probably spend much of the game a bit isolated, never getting to use his insane speed and having to play in tight spaces. But he's still a baby in football terms, his best position will also depend on the needs of the team and the coaching he'll get over the next few years.

Gazza M

Alexis was a sketchy striker because he held onto the ball too much and his off the ball movement wasn't good enough, neither of which Marty suffers from. aguero was actually the guy I was thinking of when writing that post. a little undersized for a striker, but overcomes it with outstanding instincts and finishing. he could still be good in that ronaldo/salah/mane role of an advanced winger with license to roam into number 9 positions

goon

We will find out the more we see of him I guess.

My favourite performance of his funnily enough came in the EL when he played up top. Scored two, assisted one and was generally electric all night with his pressing and running. I think Emery said after the game that he played there because he needed him there but that he was a left winger.

edit: found a clip

Gazza M

agree goon. you want the kind of sharpness shown in that video to be used in the box. it does depend what we do with the centre forward and winger roles ultimately, but I think he could be great in the middle. aguero, Eduardo, and to a lesser extent Suarez is what I see in him

Claudius

Agree with Klaus and Kurt. The kid has penalty box movement and instincts. He is the Auba heir apparent.
We can always play him out wide to build out his tool set

QuincyAbeyie

Kind of sounds like you don't agree with Klaus and Kurt?

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