HOUSEBOAT - Warning: tenuous links ahead!: Page 307 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

HOUSEBOAT - Warning: tenuous links ahead!

Claudius

I think it’s different for every player. A nice pay check, the chance to own a position and a clear story about an exciting project can be compelling. The Premier League is better than the Bundesliga. We can eclipse Bayern within a couple of years if our owner commits to the project.

speedy

It's not that different for every player every world class player has opted to leave us because its similar for every player. And they've not chosen Everton to join a project. They've gone to top teir clubs.

You drop level if your theo because your knees a bit wreaked.

But even if we expand on that theo situation for a minute. Everton have caught him on the way down but he was still a really effective player for us. He has 31 starts and 8 sub appearances for Everton in the league this season and only 3 goals to show for it.

Bold Tone

speedy wrote:
... Liverpool haven't got to where they are by poaching top players off top clubs. Their focus has been on signing players on the way up. When they were in the position we are now they were signing project players.

...

Very good point.
Klopp mainly went for players he felt they needed if they were under the age of 25.
They were not yet the finished article so he wasn't competing with the manc clubs, chelski or the big boys of Europe.
As such he was able to go all out to get them signed knowing that they would improve with age and have resale value.
There is now no argument that he has improved their Europa-level squad to one that is challenging a Pep team with no spending limit.

Nothing that hadn't been done before as Wenger used excel at this when he first came although his version involved misfits/unknown youth players he had scouted. After the post-Highbury austerity years i wish we had done something similar instead of these statDNA players and joke players everyone knew were a level below championship material.

speedy

Yea, They started buying those players before klopp even arrived.

Bold Tone

Another thing was Wenger's weak negotiating skills.
Once a player's head was turned, he capitulated (Overmars, Petit, Hleb, Diarra, Cesc) and let them go for much less than we could've milked the buyers. Daniel Levy held out till RM offered stupid money for Bale and same tactic worked for pool with Suarez and Coutinho.
Our transfer team's cheapskatedness made us miss Suarez whose sale laid the foundation for pool's resurgence while we had to make do with the 3rd rate Giroud as our main striker.

speedy

Largely depends how long is left on the contract. Some players went cheaper because they'd only a year left.
They played hardball with Suarez and it worked out for them. They also sold Alonso for £10-12m.

Bold Tone

A good player left with a year on his contract is a failure of the club not an excuse as to why millions are thrown away.
We should be run as a business, not the charity.

My argument is based on history which shows that hardball works most of the time.
Liverpool have admitted they had no leg to stand on if we had gone back with a £50m bid but instead Wenger capitulated after the £1 fiasco.
Contrast that to the VVD situation.
They were guilty of tapping him up, paid the fine and still went in strong
https://www.transfermarkt.com/virgil-van-dijk/transfers/spieler/139208
Now their leaky defence is no more.

Claudius

£1 was not a fiasco. Liverpool had no leg to stand on. Period.

QuincyAbeyie

Bold Tone wrote:
We should be run as a business, not the charity.

Bold Tone wrote:
£50m bid but instead Wenger capitulated after the £1 fiasco

Something does not add up.

Bold Tone

You are right but is an academic victory as they won the battle and the war.
The transfer game is not fair and rewards playing dirty.
Suarez people obviously leaked that fact to us and the £1 confirmed it to Liverpool.
They then kicked up a fuss and we pulled out to avoid the embarrassment of being exposed.
Didn't do us any good as we ended up falling out of the top 4 with Giroud as our main striker.

Bold Tone

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Bold Tone wrote:
We should be run as a business, not the charity.

Bold Tone wrote:
£50m bid but instead Wenger capitulated after the £1 fiasco

Something does not add up.

You know exactly what i mean but are trying to conjure up an argument where none exists!

jones

Theres no argument exactly. Liverpool were dickheads back then and theres literally no reason whatsoever to praise their antics. On the other hand if you really do think they should be commended on that embarrassment of a transfer saga re van Dijk then you'd have to praise them for the Suarez stuff as well

QuincyAbeyie

@Bold I always thought that paying £10m more than the clause would've been running the club as a charity and I still do.

Bold Tone

@Quincy
We all know the history in minute detail and you deliberately ignored all the examples i gave as to why i said charity and focussed on the imaginary £50m figure that was made up as an alternative to the £40m+£1 which fuelled Liverpool's dickheadry.
@[deleted]
There's no denying their machiavellianism (if such a word exists?) has helped move them up the table.
Champions League finalists and potential Premier League winners are 2 reasons to praise their antics.

jones

So the ends justify the means? There are other teams who almost won the Champions League and finished 2nd domestically are they worth emulating as well? Is it an option to pick also rans who aren't behaving like utter scum in their transfer dealings?

Bold Tone

Simply answered your "theres literally no reason whatsoever to praise their antics" question.
You don't have to like it and it doesn't mean i advocate us doing the same!

jones

If you're praising someone for something it usually means you like what they do. For van Dijk it was retarded behaviour all round they were caught tapping him up repeatedly, had to write a public apology and then paid close to double what they would have had to pay initially. Somehow this has turned into a story of them being resolute and paying what they had to ffs.

Suarez transfer saga was classic bully behaviour. They knew Suarez would chicken out as hed risk ruining his career over going to court. We rightly condemn Cole for swerving off the road and meeting Mourinho, we blast Barcelona for every transfer they do because of their media tactics but Liverpool deserve praise for literally breaking a contract? And on top of that Arsenal deserve blame for not just crawling up Henry's ass and giving him 10m more to spend on the transfer market because he demands it? Man you need to reconsider a few things in life if you think any of this deserves praise

Bold Tone

We equally didn't kick up a fuss as the £40m figure was, probably, confidential and we wouldn't come out smelling of roses if our sources were disclosed?
As i posted an hour ago "The transfer game is not fair and rewards playing dirty" and Liverpool are reaping those rewards big time after 25 years in the doldrums.

Meatwad

25 years in doldrums? they won the champions league in 2005 and this season's title challenge is going to end just like rafa's in 2008-09 and rodgers in 2013-14.

jones

Bold Tone wrote:
We equally didn't kick up a fuss as the £40m figure was, probably, confidential and we wouldn't come out smelling of roses if our sources were disclosed?

You're comparing us getting in touch with his representatives (or vice versa!) which is literally the standard in foot ball with all of their dirty or dumbass shenanigans, really? You're going a bit far with the devils advocate playing

No doubt we're too naive in many aspects of our football and operations. Doesn't mean we need to go overboard and start acting like they do. Also what big time rewards are we seeing? They got lucky on a couple of transfers it happens when you throw as much shit at the wall as they do. They haven't won shit and I'm 100% certain they won't have come end of May. For going as low as they do I'd want a better reward than that

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