The TV Thread (GoT spoilers): Page 22 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The TV Thread (GoT spoilers)

Burnwinter

Well, in theory he's nuanced and sympathetic at times. But in practice if I knew him I'd want to punch him.

Rex

If I remeber correctly you said he was selfish and was always putting himself first. The way I see it, end of season 3, he is in the predicament that he is in because of trying to help someone else. Yes, he is vain for sure and wants things done his way, but not OTT the way I see it.

USArsenal

the only thing I can TRULY remember him doing for himself is Gael.. (for those that aren't on Season 3, I will go no further with that).. even that "could" be construed as for both himself and Jesse

everything else started off as being for someone else (as twisted as it may seem).. the start of the whole thing was for his family.. allowing what happened to Jane happen was more for Jesse, as was what he did at the end of season 2 with the two "enforcers" (also for Jesse) as well as trying to keep the money away from Jesse (afraid he was going to spend it all on drugs)

i think the Skyler is more about herself than Walter is.. havent really been a fan of hers ever since the show started.. also dont like where Hank is headed.. become a right nasty bastard (and I HATED his wife the first season and a half, and im feeling sorry for her)

Klaus

I don't like Hank's storyarch either. He was my favourite character for the first two seasons. The show lost a lot of its dynamism after what happened.

Humble Rex wrote:
If I remeber correctly you said he was selfish and was always putting himself first. The way I see it, end of season 3, he is in the predicament that he is in because of trying to help someone else. Yes, he is vain for sure and wants things done his way, but not OTT the way I see it.

Absolutely. You got the feeling early on that he mainly kept Jesse around because he wanted to be the smartest guy in the room but it's becoming clearer and clearer that Walt really sees him like a son. He's a selfish bastard, but he also looks out for the ones he love. It's interesting to see how greed keeps corrupting everyone around him.

Rex

Hank! Don´t particularly like what has happened to his character since his "incident". Will be interesting to follow.

Speaking of change in personality, do you guys remember how Aceveda completely changed between season 3 and 4 I think? When they do that to characters it just isn´t believable.

Klaus

Aceveda had a lot of traumatic shit going on in his life though. Particularly after that incident. I don't know, I never felt he changed dramatically without reason. Maybe it's hard to pick up on all the nuances if you watch it too quickly? The Shield took absurdly long to finish its original run. They were more or less cancelled twice I think. You had a lot of time to reflect and let all the stuff sink in.

USArsenal

Klaus wrote:
Aceveda had a lot of traumatic shit going on in his life though. Particularly after that incident. I don't know, I never felt he changed dramatically without reason. Maybe it's hard to pick up on all the nuances if you watch it too quickly? The Shield took absurdly long to finish its original run. They were more or less cancelled twice I think. You had a lot of time to reflect and let all the stuff sink in.

"that" incident.. heh.. that would royally mess ME up too..

Rex

Would mess up anybody, BUT, he went from being a likeable, do right, family guy to a complete asshole only looking out for himself from the season finale to the beginning of the next season. In this case I disagree with you Klaus about watching a show too fast. Not in general mind! It all became very apparent BECAUSE we watched the finale and the season opener the same night. Not believable at all.

Burnwinter

Walt's an arsehole guys - yes he has his family's best interests at heart, and Jesse's, but he's a vicious, paranoid and manipulative liar who believes he's always right.

ibby

Just finished watching the penultimate episode of The Shield. Vic Mackey is one sick motherfucker! "How much memory has that thing got?" hahaha.

Can't wait to finish it later.

Klaus

Thundercats is coming back! I can't believe it. Why hasn't anyone told me about this? Internet, you make me sad sometimes.

USArsenal

thundercats as in the cartoon series from the 80's ?

snarrrrrf

Qwiss

Burnwinter wrote:
Walt's an arsehole guys - yes he has his family's best interests at heart, and Jesse's, but he's a vicious, paranoid and manipulative liar who believes he's always right.

The whole point of Walt is that early on he made a choice to do the wrong thing because he was dying, he didn't want to lose face asking people for the money and he didn't want to leave his family in the lurch. I don't think he was ever meant to be all that sympathetic, at times he can be but not much any more. The whole point is he becomes more and more amoral as the show goes on. At this stage he's completely lost sight of who he was and why he made that moral compromise in the beginning. In fact now he's pretty much paying for the price of his actions because his entire life has gone to shit. IMO the show has never condoned the decisions Walts made.

Qwiss

Humble Rex wrote:
Hank! Don´t particularly like what has happened to his character since his "incident". Will be interesting to follow.

Speaking of change in personality, do you guys remember how Aceveda completely changed between season 3 and 4 I think? When they do that to characters it just isn´t believable.

There's a pretty significant reason for the change in Hank though so it makes sense, even if it is a bit dull. I'm just hoping it doesn't last too long.

Burnwinter

qs! wrote:
Burnwinter wrote:
Walt's an arsehole guys - yes he has his family's best interests at heart, and Jesse's, but he's a vicious, paranoid and manipulative liar who believes he's always right.

The whole point of Walt is that early on he made a choice to do the wrong thing because he was dying, he didn't want to lose face asking people for the money and he didn't want to leave his family in the lurch. I don't think he was ever meant to be all that sympathetic, at times he can be but not much any more. The whole point is he becomes more and more amoral as the show goes on. At this stage he's completely lost sight of who he was and why he made that moral compromise in the beginning. In fact now he's pretty much paying for the price of his actions because his entire life has gone to shit. IMO the show has never condoned the decisions Walts made.

Absolutely agree with that Qs. The show is basically a long exploration of the tenuousness of the idea that the ends justify the means. At the end of season 3 we're at the stage where Walt has repeatedly returned to dealing meth (and gangsterism) despite being handed several golden opportunities to quit. It's all psychologised quite convincingly, but there are fewer excuses than ever for his behaviour.

The show contrasts very favourably with Weeds, which is an escapist fantasy for bored suburbanites by comparison. The choice of meth vs grass is pretty central to the distinction. Bored wives might want to be Nancy Botwin, but not many bored husbands would want to be Walt White.

Claudius

Just finished Wire Season 4. Another excellent one. Really enjoyed the focus on the political machinery. As usual, a character I'd grown fond of was killed in the last episode. The education story seemed uninteresting at first, but it developed well and linked into other plot lines and characters, first with another one of Colvin's social experiments, and second with the kids' involvement in the drug game. And Marlowe so far appears to be better suited to winning in the drug game than his compatriots in the Barksdale crew, given his business focus, ruthlessness and aversion to the spotlight. A real contrast from the testosterone-drunk Barksdale crew.

ibby

Starting OZ.

Klaus

You'll be browsing ebay for one of these within a week:

Gazza M

ibby wrote:
Just finished watching the penultimate episode of The Shield. Vic Mackey is one sick motherfucker! "How much memory has that thing got?" hahaha.

Can't wait to finish it later.

Finished it yesterday myself.

Easily the most depressing end to a tv show I've ever seen. Vic turned out to be the irredeemable villain of the show.

USArsenal

turned out to be? thought he was from about the third episode on... lol

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