mdgoonah41 wrote:

lol. im probably never going to read the books, ive read plenty of critiques of his hackish writing and prose.

He's pretty bad, yeah. This part about Dany is one I'm glad they left out of the show for instance:

Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water.

Seems like that passage serves as the whole show's guiding principle, really.

It's definitely a show about appetites and their effects.

Bit of an underwhelming first episode I thought but it's set up the rest of the season quite nicely. They need to consolidate a little, still too many little arcs going on.

Are there really that many arcs? They have thirteen episodes to resolve a few biggies

• some big battle with the white walkers. Given that they don't talk much, this doesn't need a long dramatic prelude. Just fight. For an hour
• some southern battle - Cersei and dragon queen
• probably some northern battle where some army get their asses handed to them; and walkers taking the wall

That stuff there is 3 of the 13 hours. There's 10 hours to handle so-called small stuff.

The final episode should just be an elaborate, one hour version of the title sequence doing incredibly detailed character epilogues for every person that has ever appeared in the show, including peasants, visualised as animated clockwork, all set to the churning theme song.

Claudius wrote:

Are there really that many arcs? They have thirteen episodes to resolve a few biggies

• some big battle with the white walkers. Given that they don't talk much, this doesn't need a long dramatic prelude. Just fight. For an hour
• some southern battle - Cersei and dragon queen
• probably some northern battle where some army get their asses handed to them; and walkers taking the wall

That stuff there is 3 of the 13 hours. There's 10 hours to handle so-called small stuff.

A one episode resolution to the whole white walker story would be incredibly unsatisfying.

13 episodes is plenty of time to wrap everything up but this is a show that is constantly table setting. I expect there will be a lot more meandering and moving pieces into place in this mini-season.

Claudius wrote:

Are there really that many arcs? They have thirteen episodes to resolve a few biggies

• some big battle with the white walkers. Given that they don't talk much, this doesn't need a long dramatic prelude. Just fight. For an hour
• some southern battle - Cersei and dragon queen
• probably some northern battle where some army get their asses handed to them; and walkers taking the wall

That stuff there is 3 of the 13 hours. There's 10 hours to handle so-called small stuff.

My concern isn't so much about getting it all resolved before the end, it's making about making each episode a more satisfying watch. The best episodes have been those where they focus on a single story. These ones almost feel like a recap.

Expected outcome, but I didn't expect it in episode two. They really set Cersei up for failure with giving her Sam's dad as an ally as well, just all the most unlikeable characters gathering up.

Also pretty sure I held my pillow harder than Jorah bit the stick or whatever during that scene.

the pass over to hot pie was disgusting!

That scene was nauseating. The stuff literally covered half his body too.

I've been hoping for years that Dany ends up being painted as the villain she sounds like with her usurper plans, and there have been some hints lately that her arc might bow in that direction. Varys schooling her on how monarchs fight for power and titles while common people fight for their lives was hopefully the beginning of this conversation, not the end of it.

Pretty lazy writing if all her teaching from Tyrion is undone by that 30 second chat with Olenna and I hope it doesn't come to that.

It's not like Tyrion has been teaching her anything special on this subject, or that Tyrion is necessarily even right in his convictions. The show is a bit poorly plotted, but in the books Tyrion is mainly driven by revenge at this point. Him going to find Dany is more about joining up with an ally powerful enough to take out Cersei than about doing what's right for Westeros.

Dany is a classical conquerer in a lot of ways. She invades a country she's never lived in with an army of war-mongering rapists for the sake of power. The way she talks and acts ticks a lot of boxes about historical usurpers. The only thing that really separates her from a foreign tyrant is an expired birthright, and we learned long ago that birthrights and claims are meaningless in Westeros. The iron throne gets taken by power, and then the descendants of the new ruling family are considered to have a claim to the throne until they too are cast aside. The Targaryens took the iron throne by force, Robert took it from them, Cersei took it (twice) with her plotting and scheming. Dany has no valid claim and no business being in Westeros beyond the obvious revenge motif. Her father was rightfully cast down during Robert's Rebellion.

You can have her take the iron throne, but you can't do it while pretending that she's anything else than another highborn who thinks it's her right to rule over others. Personally I think having Dany realise that her reasons aren't purer than anyone else's would make for a far more interesting conversation than the self-mythologising white saviour narrative they've been building. A satisfying conclusion to the story in aSoIaF would be the beginning of the end of the feudal era and people like Daenerys, and I do think Martin's writing is heading in that direction. As far as the show is concerned it's completely up in the air at this point though, but one can still hope that they reach some form of closure instead of just ending the narrative after the last battle has played out.

I've read half of the first book, but if the show changed Tyrion's motivation for the show, then what the book says doesn't really matter to me. She took the greyjoys as allies only if they would stop raiding and plans to take Winterfell the hard way in order to save lives. If they're building her up as a villain, they're not doing a good job of it in my opinion. I don't buy that she's just like the others either, because she's vastly different from both Joffrey, Cersei and The Mad King. I'm not one to shout every time a white person saves the day either, but let's not get into that discussion.

The common theme for all of them is power and how they relate to it. The fight for the throne itself since day one has been nothing more than a set condition in order to test the characters' ideas about morality and bloodrights. The idea of "enforcing peace" and saving lives through warmongering is a tenet shared by many historical enforcers. Dany is obviously not coming to Westeros to sit on a throne. She's coming because she thinks she has a right to govern its people. The whole idea of being a queen presupposes that you have actual subjects. If the spoilers are true [spoiler]she'll burn Sam's family alive for the insolence of his father[/spoiler], and I reckon that would spell the end of her potential alliance with the north.

That was a very good episode. They've definitely upped the pace.

Will be interesting to see how Dany and Jon get along.

Decent episode.i thought the final battle scene was a bit choppy and dark. Theon still being a coward was good too. I want no redemption arc for him.

That Greyworm scene really killed the episodes momentum. Those 2 are so bloody pointless.

Sam is getting some pretty gross scenes this season. Glad his story is moving along though.

Klaus wrote:

The common theme for all of them is power and how they relate to it. The fight for the throne itself since day one has been nothing more than a set condition in order to test the characters' ideas about morality and bloodrights. The idea of "enforcing peace" and saving lives through warmongering is a tenet shared by many historical enforcers. Dany is obviously not coming to Westeros to sit on a throne. She's coming because she thinks she has a right to govern its people. The whole idea of being a queen presupposes that you have actual subjects. If the spoilers are true [spoiler]she'll burn Sam's family alive for the insolence of his father[/spoiler], and I reckon that would spell the end of her potential alliance with the north.

I completely agree with this. I love the idea of Daenerys spending years overcoming the odds, building up an army, birthing three dragons and setting off to claim her birthright, only to find out that she isn't the chosen one. She should be put in the position where she has to decide whether she will truly stand for everything she has said and give it all up for the real hero. And we know she won't, because she has had her taste of power, and like Sansa now that she has Winterfell, she won't want to give it up, even for the greater good. 

Much better episode this time. I really enjoyed Sam's scenes, and Jim Broadbent is a little treat each time he's on. Sad to see the Dorn princesses come to an end. No Bran this episode - at some point he has to tell Jon and Dany what's what.