Just one more thought—Kit Harrington is quite bad, I really don't enjoy watching him act.

How does GOT rate amongst the all time best series. Pretty highly given this thread I assume.

Biggus wrote:

Re the letter, yes it is Littlefinger playing Sansa like a musical instrument.
Surprised no one mentioned the waif using Arya as a pin cushion, but it was very unprofessional of her not to make sure the job was done.

Yep unprofessional but also ery plot convenient.

I liked the stuff in the north. The Hound stuff was terrible.

Qwiss! wrote:

Biggus wrote:

Re the letter, yes it is Littlefinger playing Sansa like a musical instrument.
Surprised no one mentioned the waif using Arya as a pin cushion, but it was very unprofessional of her not to make sure the job was done.

Yep unprofessional but also  ery plot convenient.

I liked the stuff in the north. The Hound stuff was terrible.

I think Arya will find the acting troop, as she trusts the actress, and now can't trust anyone. When she doesn't show for the boat, the Waif will assume for the time being she was successful. Richard E Grant's part has been way too small to think its ended there.

I think it's pretty likely she will get a benefit from sparing that actor from death too—heading towards a fairly obvious plot reciprocity.

Tony Montana wrote:

How does GOT rate amongst the all time best series. Pretty highly given this thread I assume.

It's trash tv basically. Very entertaining trash for the most part, but it's nowhere near the great HBO shows (let alone all the time greats). It could probably have gone in that direction early on, but it quickly turned into a melodrama instead with disjointed storytelling as one of its main hallmarks.

Re: last episode, I wonder what the point of casting Ian McShane was when he literally got killed off after five minutes on the screen. And while I'm looking forward to Cleganebowl as much as the next person I don't like The Hound's new storyline either. It's such a useless, shallow trope, and another peripheral storyline eating up screentime was the last thing the show needed.

Klaus wrote:

Tony Montana wrote:

How does GOT rate amongst the all time best series. Pretty highly given this thread I assume.

It's trash tv basically.

  Exactly. Dungeons and dragons for adults.

It's the best and worst show that nearly everyone watches. It's pretty much the only show I watch where the barista will ask me "Did you see last night's episode?", or where that sanctimonious prick you know (which could, in other circumstances, be me) likes to make very clear that they eschew it.

Scooner wrote:

Qwiss! wrote:

Yep unprofessional but also  ery plot convenient.

I liked the stuff in the north. The Hound stuff was terrible.

I think Arya will find the acting troop, as she trusts the actress, and now can't trust anyone. When she doesn't show for the boat, the Waif will assume for the time being she was successful. Richard E Grant's part has been way too small to think its ended there.

Again, what what the point of Sandor being saved by a pious community and seemingly undergoing an epiphany, just to have them all slaughtered and him take up the axe again?

Arya will take up with the mummers on a journey that will lead her to Daenerys (which was Tyrion's route in the books).

flobaba wrote:

Klaus wrote:

It's trash tv basically.

  Exactly. Dungeons and dragons for adults.

Well as I say to Jonesy (re the EPL) why do you watch it then if all you want to do is complain about it?

I was thinking about what Littlefinger's endgame could be if the letter indeed was from him. Could he be planning marrying Robin Arryn (which we have seen just recently how easily he can control) off to Sansa, creating a sort of union involving the Eyrie, the North and possibly the Riverlands? It would effectively put him in charge of about two thirds of Westeros. There are problems of course, they are first cousins and Sansa's been married twice already, but that doesn't seem to be the kind of thing to stop Littlefinger.

Tony Montana wrote:

How does GOT rate amongst the all time best series. Pretty highly given this thread I assume.

Its not in the conversation.

It seemed at first like it might transcend its genre but that never happened. Now its just another inconsistent genre show. I'd put it beside things like The Walking Dead, Flash, Daredevil, etc

Agreed.

Jens wrote:

I was thinking about what Littlefinger's endgame could be if the letter indeed was from him. Could he be planning marrying Robin Arryn (which we have seen just recently how easily he can control) off to Sansa, creating a sort of union involving the Eyrie, the North and possibly the Riverlands? It would effectively put him in charge of about two thirds of Westeros. There are problems of course, they are first cousins and Sansa's been married twice already, but that doesn't seem to be the kind of thing to stop Littlefinger.

It might be his plan but I don't see Sansa getting into another marriage like that. At least I hope we don't, how many times can they return to that well?

Klaus wrote:

Tony Montana wrote:

How does GOT rate amongst the all time best series. Pretty highly given this thread I assume.

It's trash tv basically. Very entertaining trash for the most part, but it's nowhere near the great HBO shows (let alone all the time greats).

I'm curious what shows these all time greats are that you put ahead of the best HBO shows.

Breaking Bad and Mad Men would be obvious ones.

Qwiss! wrote:

Jens wrote:

I was thinking about what Littlefinger's endgame could be if the letter indeed was from him. Could he be planning marrying Robin Arryn (which we have seen just recently how easily he can control) off to Sansa, creating a sort of union involving the Eyrie, the North and possibly the Riverlands? It would effectively put him in charge of about two thirds of Westeros. There are problems of course, they are first cousins and Sansa's been married twice already, but that doesn't seem to be the kind of thing to stop Littlefinger.

It might be his plan but I don't see Sansa getting into another marriage like that. At least I hope we don't, how many times can they return to that well?

I'm thinking it's the demand Littlefinger makes of her for him to come to her aid with the Knights of the Vale, much like what Robb had to do to appease Walder Frey and let them cross the bridge in season one.

Qwiss! wrote:

Breaking Bad and Mad Men would be obvious ones.

Better than The Sopranos and The Wire?

Season 1 and 3 were excellent. 5 was a mess, although episode 8 is a keeper. 6 is still finding itself 7 episodes in. So a bit patchy, but there are very few shows that have consistently had excellent seasons year-after-year. Breaking Bad is the closest I can think of. I wasn't a massive fan of the final season of The Wire, but the others were excellent, particularly 1 and 3.

Jens wrote:

Qwiss! wrote:

Breaking Bad and Mad Men would be obvious ones.

Better than The Sopranos and The Wire?

Sopranos would be top for me but they're all great and I wouldn't argue with someone who had BB or MM tops. There is also comedy where things like The Simpsons, Seinfeld, etc are up there with Curb and Larry Sanders.

Thinking of the top shows though its a long time since HBO have had a really great drama. The Wire ended in 2008, has there been anything since thats come close? GOT is a huge hit and BWE has a following but neither are genuinely top quality drama. Am I forgetting something?

True, but Alfie Allen has had a thankless role for several seasons now, his character's meant to be so traumatised he can't manage any emotion beyond dismay. Looking forward to whether Asha can resurrect the arrogant Theon of the books.

Harrington as Jon, on the other hand, just needs so much more elan, a bit of an element of magic about him. I'm starting to struggle to believe men would naturally fall in behind such a perpetually worried-looking and stunned-looking leader.

Jens wrote:

Qwiss! wrote:

Breaking Bad and Mad Men would be obvious ones.

Better than The Sopranos and The Wire?

I wouldn't swear to it, but I think Rectify is what I regard as the best show currently on—how it finishes will probably decide where it places in the firmament of prestige television longer term, but I personally rate it ahead of both Breaking Bad and Mad Men for now. And I think historical distance has started to make a bit plainer some of the deficits of The Sopranos and The Wire, both of which are incredibly good though. 

Burnwinter wrote:

Jens wrote:

Better than The Sopranos and The Wire?

I wouldn't swear to it, but I think Rectify is what I regard as the best show currently on—how it finishes will probably decide where it places in the firmament of prestige television longer term, but I personally rate it ahead of both Breaking Bad and Mad Men for now. And I think historical distance has started to make a bit plainer some of the deficits of The Sopranos and The Wire, both of which are incredibly good though. 

Rectify is incredible..  but i certainly wouldn't put it above Breaking Bad OR The Wire.  Maybe one of the top 5 shows on air currently, but it has competition even at that.  (IMO)

Burnwinter wrote:

Jens wrote:

Better than The Sopranos and The Wire?

I wouldn't swear to it, but I think Rectify is what I regard as the best show currently on—how it finishes will probably decide where it places in the firmament of prestige television longer term, but I personally rate it ahead of both Breaking Bad and Mad Men for now. And I think historical distance has started to make a bit plainer some of the deficits of The Sopranos and The Wire, both of which are incredibly good though. 

Yeah Rectify is up there for me too but I don't think its ever going to be held in the same regard with a wider audience unfortunately. The Americans is another I also feel is potentially at that level. Both depend on how they stick the landing though.

USArsenal wrote:

Burnwinter wrote:

I wouldn't swear to it, but I think Rectify is what I regard as the best show currently on—how it finishes will probably decide where it places in the firmament of prestige television longer term, but I personally rate it ahead of both Breaking Bad and Mad Men for now. And I think historical distance has started to make a bit plainer some of the deficits of The Sopranos and The Wire, both of which are incredibly good though. 

Rectify is incredible..  but i certainly wouldn't put it above Breaking Bad OR The Wire.  Maybe one of the top 5 shows on air currently, but it has competition even at that.  (IMO)

Give us a quick 5 there out of interest.

I'd have Rectify right up there. Love that show.

Breaking Bad was great but not comparable to The Wire imo. I'd rate it similarly to Fargo's first season, extremely fun to watch but I wouldn't watch it a second time, unlike The Wire which you can completely immerse yourself into and rewatch it several times.

Rectify I've tried to get into but after the first episode it feels like one of those shows you have to be in the mood for, don't really have the time for it right now.

I watched Breaking Bad a second time with the Mrs, was still very enjoyable.

I've rewatched Breaking Bad too, it was great the second time. Not sure how I'd rate vs the Wire, they're both great. The Wire is a more ambitious show that mostly realises those ambitions but that 5th season hurts its overall legacy. Breaking Bad is pretty straight forward but it gets everything pretty much spot on without any significant drop for its whole run.

Personally prefer Sopranos and Mad Men though. And maybe even Rectify and Americans when all is said and done.

If Lyanna Mormont had three dragons, this show would have been over two seasons ago.

I swear to god why couldn't Grey Worm and Missandei have taken one of those fireballs to the noggin, their scenes are excruciating to sit through. Arya storyline was so fucking predictable and lame, as was the Riverrun siege. One of the shittiest episodes I can remember, proper letdown.

blackfish and waif get murked off camera. siege of riverrun goes out with a whimper.

this season ha been worse than last, and i really didnt like last season. 2 eps left to salvage it

Can't remember a worse episode, the preview fooled me. Hopefully they'll keep the episode 9 tradition alive next week.

what a head shaker of a season. totally disappointing so far.

After a good start the season has really taken a nose dive.

That being said, at least the crap with Arya is finally over.

Some reasonable wiolence though from the Cleganes. Shame we didn't get to see the Waif get spitted, but I suppose they wanted the "suspense" of seeing whose face would be displayed.

General agreement on this season being shit though. Boooo.

Ironically, the show seems more shackled by the story in the books than ever, despite everyone expecting the opposite to happen once they moved past Martin's writing. There's no way they'd spend this much time on repeating storylines and stalling character development if it weren't to match the pacing somewhat in the yet unreleased book. And when you factor in that the showrunners themselves are devoid of any real storytelling talent you get this mess. The plotting is pretty predictable at this rate.

Next episode we'll get some boring Jorah bullshit (how is this asshole still alive?), probably a bit of scheming on the Iron Islands, Benjen Stark will hunt bunnies and say something about what it feels like to be dead while Bran wargs back in time to unveil the most obvious plot twist in the history of the ASoIaF universe, and Jon will find out about Sansa's decision to turn away the knights of the Vale without telling him and it'll create some boring drama between them for absolutely no reason. Rickon Stark will still be chained up in the dungeon and won't get much of either screentime or talking lines, which might be for the better anyway because no one who's watching has a clue about what he's supposed to look like anymore, or why they should even care. Daenarys will say something about fire and chains. Davos Seaworth will hand out advice he's unqualified to give and people will believe him because he has a beard. And then the episode will end with a peripheral character's death for some shock value. (Rickon Stark, we hardly knew ye.)

And yet you'll all keep watching!

I'm glad I can still manage to watch the show and enjoy a break from reality and critique for an hour!