The Tuesday Club: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

The Tuesday Club

Captain

who else has a blonde afro and blonde "beard" at Arsenal?

Ricky1985

Put it this way, it was made a lot more obvious by darkening their skin.

Anyway, I just thought it was a bit of fun. Not something I would do, because it's not really my idea of funny, but still not hurting anyone. If you, and I don't mean you personally, take offence to that, then you have reasons that run much deeper than that particular joke. And I'd say that was then your problem and something you should look within at, rather than castigating the guy who made the joke.

Captain

i personally don't care, but that is a ludicrous statement Ricky.

Tony Montana

Ricky1985 wrote:
Hmmm, each to their own I guess. I just think in this instance, it's a bit of fun, not meant to hurt anyone.

Sure.

But it does hurt some people and for that reason some people want it stopped.

Tony Montana

Ricky1985 wrote:
Put it this way, it was made a lot more obvious by darkening their skin.

Anyway, I just thought it was a bit of fun. Not something I would do, because it's not really my idea of funny, but still not hurting anyone. If you, and I don't mean you personally, take offence to that, then you have reasons that run much deeper than that particular joke. And I'd say that was then your problem and something you should look within at, rather than castigating the guy who made the joke.

That's bullshit sorry.

What issues exactly? Don't be afraid to say. Say what you mean fully and we can discuss like adults. In no way judging you as I don't want this to decent into some sort of war.

Bearing in mind what I have told you about the history of blacking up why is it a problem for the targeted and not the jokers?

Ricky1985

Tony Montana wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
Hmmm, each to their own I guess. I just think in this instance, it's a bit of fun, not meant to hurt anyone.

Sure.

But it does hurt some people and for that reason some people want it stopped.

It's not like people going around "blacking" themselves up is an epidemic, Tony. 😆

Ricky1985

Tony Montana wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
Put it this way, it was made a lot more obvious by darkening their skin.

Anyway, I just thought it was a bit of fun. Not something I would do, because it's not really my idea of funny, but still not hurting anyone. If you, and I don't mean you personally, take offence to that, then you have reasons that run much deeper than that particular joke. And I'd say that was then your problem and something you should look within at, rather than castigating the guy who made the joke.

That's bullshit sorry.

What issues exactly? Don't be afraid to say. Say what you mean fully and we can discuss like adults. In no way judging you as I don't want this to decent into some sort of war.

Bearing in mind what I have told you about the history of blacking up why is it a problem for the targeted and not the jokers?

Because if you're taking offence to it, you're not seeing it for whatever it is. You're seeing it through filters that are your own, and making it into something it is not.

Tony Montana

Ricky1985 wrote:
It's not like people going around "blacking" themselves up is an epidemic, Tony. 😆

Yes I know that.

But people blowing themselves up in the UK in the name of Islam isn't an epidemic here either yet it doesn't make it any less serious.

Not comparing the effects of terrorism to blacking up, rather it's the principle that i'm getting at. Just because it doesn't happen often doesn't mean it's not important or we shouldn't care.

FWIW they black up on that new Matt Lucas show on the BBC and I couldn't care less. I don't really care about the Orient issue either in itself but people DO black up to hurt or take the piss out of the black community whether we like it or not.

So what are the deep issues?

Tony Montana

Ricky1985 wrote:
Tony Montana wrote:
That's bullshit sorry.

What issues exactly? Don't be afraid to say. Say what you mean fully and we can discuss like adults. In no way judging you as I don't want this to decent into some sort of war.

Bearing in mind what I have told you about the history of blacking up why is it a problem for the targeted and not the jokers?

Because if you're taking offence to it, you're not seeing it for whatever it is. You're seeing through filters that are your own, and making it into something it is not.

In this case there's no big deal sure. They just wanted to look like Song as much as possible.

I still don't think you understand that this sort of thing is sensitive to a lot of people though.

Ricky1985

Tony Montana wrote:
So what are the deep issues?

I'm not talking specifically about the issue of race, I'm talking about being able to see a situation objectively for what it is, and in what spirit it was intended.

Tony Montana

Ricky1985 wrote:
Tony Montana wrote:
So what are the deep issues?

I'm not talking specifically about the issue of race, I'm talking about being able to see a situation objectively for what it is, and in what spirit it was intended.

Yeah I got that. I posted that before I saw your post explaining the issue.

Captain

Let's be honest Ricky, everyone knows that blacking yourself up is offensive no matter what the 'spirit' of it was. People don't squint their eyes and put in false teeth anymore to represent being oriental, they don't stick on a big nose and a cape to show that they are jewish and the list goes on. They don't do it because, as right thinking people, they know it causes offence and they usually know why it causes offence.

At best it is an ill-judged joke and at worse it can be something far more sinister but really, they are just actions that should be avoided. It's just common decency.

Ricky1985

I hear what you're saying, Capi. I just think in this instance, taking offence is not seeing it for what it is. An automatic reaction almost.

I can't believe (well, I can actually) all the complaints the BBC have received because of Come Fly With Me. It's a laugh, a bit of fun, how can you possibly be offended by any of that? What are you actually taking offence to? (Again I don't actually mean you personally)

Captain

I don't watch tv so you would have to enlighten me.

Ricky1985

A taster:

Ricky1985

More, Japanese this time:

Working class:

Captain

That pretty much sums up why I don't watch tv.

y va marquer

I wonder whether the complaints made to the BBC are from people who are offended by how they are portrayed in the Come Fly with Me sketches, or, whether the complaints are made by people who get offended on behalf of the people depicted?

Tony Montana

Ricky1985 wrote:
More, Japanese this time:

I'm surprised that you don't think Japanese people can't be offended by that.

Burnwinter

Ricky1985 wrote:
I hear what you're saying, Capi. I just think in this instance, taking offence is not seeing it for what it is. An automatic reaction almost.

Exactly Ricky. Taking offence is generally an automatic reaction. Most people don't sit there and think to themselves "Right - 3 o'clock! Time for a spot of concocted moral outrage".

Trouble is blackface gags are closely linked in our historical consciousness with the oppression of black people.

It's interesting that in these situations the unintentional offenders often react to objections by saying "you're overreacting - why are you being so uptight, it's only a joke" etc. instead of just taking a moment to think about it, and respectfully backing off.

It's not that different from Prince Harry wearing a Nazi outfit to a costume party after all. Nazi jokes may sometimes be good for a laugh, but the Queen's grandson state making Nazi jokes to the scions of European nobility is a slightly different kettle, slightly different inflection. So people get offended, at which point you say sorry.

« Previous Page Next Page »