Klopp, Ancelotti or wait n hitch our skirt up to Pep: Page 24 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Klopp, Ancelotti or wait n hitch our skirt up to Pep

Sicario

flobaba wrote:
Saved for when Sicario says to show him "one time. One time"

'Lol'

Klaus

BWoolley wrote:
Only reservation is the general one around Italian managers in England, but I guess Conte is doing well enough, even if on a small sample size. Most other top managers seem to have a short shelf life.

I think it's a bit of an outdated view. Aren't 3/7 PL winning managers Italian (Mancini, Ancelotti, Ranieri), with a fourth one looking like a pretty likely candidate this season?

BWoolley

Agreed - don't mean managers of Italian nationality but ones whose primary coaching experience is in the Italian league. I guess I forgot about Mancini. I consider Ancelotti and Ranieri non-Italian coaches in that Ranieri had a lot of experience in England with Chelsea and Ancelotti has coached everywhere in the world. Having said that, point taken - I would anyway love Allegri here.

BWoolley

Who do we think are realistic candidates in the unlikely scenario that Wenger does decide to call it quits after yet another Wengery season? Simeone and Tuchel are probably out of reach. Allegri and Sampaoli seem to be the most desirable candidates. Who are the other options? Hassenhuttl was linked at some point I guess. Any others that people fancy?

Claudius

Candidates are a dime a dozen All four of the guys you mentioned could do something - at least not lose in the way Wenger chooses to lose.

Quick question. We used to have these vicious fights between so called Wenger-Outs and Wengerites on this forum a few weeks ago. Do we still have a constituency that wishes to see Wenger retained? He has done a lot for the club in the past, so wouldn't be surprised if we still have a lot of folks who think he can rekindle the flame.

speedy

Claudius wrote:
Candidates are a dime a dozen All four of the guys you mentioned could do something - at least not lose in the way Wenger chooses to lose.

Quick question. We used to have these vicious fights between so called Wenger-Outs and Wengerites on this forum a few weeks ago. Do we still have a constituency that wishes to see Wenger retained? He has done a lot for the club in the past, so wouldn't be surprised if we still have a lot of folks who think he can rekindle the flame.

I think everyone or almost everyone wants him gone. Their are however people who pretent everything he does is stupid/wrong. And I will sometimes call them on that. Like when people say Wenger doesn't care. The guy is cracking and pushing the forth official because of his fustration with the team.

Qwiss

Its not something to be defended though. If Xhaka is stupid for getting suspended, and he is, then so is Wenger. Both were pointless reasons for a suspension and Wengers absence obviously played its part last night.

Rohit

Yeah, he is just not one of the best out there anymore. There are younger, more hungry, smarter managers. He is still very good but not good enough. For example, Klopp will get a lot of credit this season for managing this Liverpool squad to CL places but it won't always be recognized by a large percentage that Wenger did even better to get some of the absolute dross we had in the past to CL qualification.

He is old now, hasn't adapted enough, he needs to go after this season. He isn't doing himself or Arsenal any favours.

Klaus

I think Wenger in himself would work a lot better in an environment that isn't so dependent on him. He's got a backroom staff he's comfortable with rather than one he actually needs. Change is a good thing in at least one aspect: it prevents stagnation. And there has been plenty of evidence throughout the years to suggest that the whole organisation we've built has stagnated. Outdated methods when it comes to coaching and medicine, matchday tactics that aren't up to code... these are all things that are preventable if you surround the manager with better people.

Look at Alex Ferguson. The bloke didn't have one decent tactical plan in his entire career. His knowledge of football extended to: "Let's go out there and kick the ball lads". His outstanding skill was group management. He understood the psychology of collective sports like few other people. But United brought in top-notch tactical assistants for him like Carlos Queiroz who could handle the matchday tactical stuff, who came with fresh knowledge about the latest theories and teachings. What did Arsenal do? We kept Pat Rice for 15 years and then we promoted Steve Bould because he used to be a great defender. When Gary Lewin left us in 2008 after a number of horribly injury-filled years we went and hired his cousin to fill the role. We've largely had the same coaches and the same backroom staff since Wenger arrived and it's obviously not helping.

goon

Claudius wrote:
Candidates are a dime a dozen All four of the guys you mentioned could do something - at least not lose in the way Wenger chooses to lose.

Quick question. We used to have these vicious fights between so called Wenger-Outs and Wengerites on this forum a few weeks ago. Do we still have a constituency that wishes to see Wenger retained? He has done a lot for the club in the past, so wouldn't be surprised if we still have a lot of folks who think he can rekindle the flame.

I can't think of anyone who's seriously argued for us to keep Wenger for a long time.

Bold Tone

Yup. That war ended more than 5 years ago.

speedy

Qwiss! wrote:
Its not something to be defended though. If Xhaka is stupid for getting suspended, and he is, then so is Wenger. Both were pointless reasons for a suspension and Wengers absence obviously played its part last night.

I didn't defend the action anywhere. I said he cares when people said he doesn't.

Qwiss

He obviously cares. Maybe too much. Might be why he wont go away.

Gurgen

Klaus wrote:
I think Wenger in himself would work a lot better in an environment that isn't so dependent on him. He's got a backroom staff he's comfortable with rather than one he actually needs. Change is a good thing in at least one aspect: it prevents stagnation. And there has been plenty of evidence throughout the years to suggest that the whole organisation we've built has stagnated. Outdated methods when it comes to coaching and medicine, matchday tactics that aren't up to code... these are all things that are preventable if you surround the manager with better people.

Look at Alex Ferguson. The bloke didn't have one decent tactical plan in his entire career. His knowledge of football extended to: "Let's go out there and kick the ball lads". His outstanding skill was group management. He understood the psychology of collective sports like few other people. But United brought in top-notch tactical assistants for him like Carlos Queiroz who could handle the matchday tactical stuff, who came with fresh knowledge about the latest theories and teachings. What did Arsenal do? We kept Pat Rice for 15 years and then we promoted Steve Bould because he used to be a great defender. When Gary Lewin left us in 2008 after a number of horribly injury-filled years we went and hired his cousin to fill the role. We've largely had the same coaches and the same backroom staff since Wenger arrived and it's obviously not helping.

Spot on. Primorac has been here since day one too. Is that really the best we can do? There is no modern first team coach out there with fresh ideas?

We are stuck in the past and it's embarrassing that no-one at the club seems to realise it or wants to do anything about it.

Anzac

Gurgen wrote:
Klaus wrote:
I think Wenger in himself would work a lot better in an environment that isn't so dependent on him. He's got a backroom staff he's comfortable with rather than one he actually needs. Change is a good thing in at least one aspect: it prevents stagnation. And there has been plenty of evidence throughout the years to suggest that the whole organisation we've built has stagnated. Outdated methods when it comes to coaching and medicine, matchday tactics that aren't up to code... these are all things that are preventable if you surround the manager with better people.

Look at Alex Ferguson. The bloke didn't have one decent tactical plan in his entire career. His knowledge of football extended to: "Let's go out there and kick the ball lads". His outstanding skill was group management. He understood the psychology of collective sports like few other people. But United brought in top-notch tactical assistants for him like Carlos Queiroz who could handle the matchday tactical stuff, who came with fresh knowledge about the latest theories and teachings. What did Arsenal do? We kept Pat Rice for 15 years and then we promoted Steve Bould because he used to be a great defender. When Gary Lewin left us in 2008 after a number of horribly injury-filled years we went and hired his cousin to fill the role. We've largely had the same coaches and the same backroom staff since Wenger arrived and it's obviously not helping.

Spot on. Primorac has been here since day one too. Is that really the best we can do? There is no modern first team coach out there with fresh ideas?

We are stuck in the past and it's embarrassing that no-one at the club seems to realise it or wants to do anything about it.

Consequence of having even a benign dictatorship where no one else is in a position to question let alone have any direct knowledge to do so, and our 2nd biggest share holder has no say in the matter, despite owning almost 1/3 of the club.
The last person to have any influence, knowledge, experience or ambition outside Wenger was DD & he left a decade ago.

Anzac

Talk re Allegri doesn't seem to be going away with recent reports of a similar time frame for a decision by him re Juve as Wenger and AFC.
Hasenhuttl seems popular but I suspect much of Leipzig's success to date has to do with their structure and Rangnick as DoF, much like Saints.
Nagelsmann also seems popular but lacks UEFA experience as well as not having been at a BIG club, & seems much like Howe in that regard.
Not a lot of recent talk re Tuchel with BVB not in the title hunt.
De Boer no longer seems a factor neither does Blanc,
AVB is now managing in China,
Mancini seems desperate and is now linked with WHam if Bilic goes.
I still like Favre & wonder if he would leave Nice after 1 season if they don't gain an automatic entry into the CL.

lorddulaarsenal

Allegri is the one to get. Looks classy and what be great to see someone with true tactical nous take control

Tony Montana

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Allegri is the one to get. Looks classy and what be great to see someone with true tactical nous take control

Image and perception are huge in assessing managers these days. Pep, Conte, Mourinho etc.

Qwiss

Tony Montana wrote:
@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Allegri is the one to get. Looks classy and what be great to see someone with true tactical nous take control

Image and perception are huge in assessing managers these days. Pep, Conte, Mourinho etc.

I think image matters though. Look at Mourinho. After his terrible season with Chelsea he had an awful start with United. Everywhere else he always had good starts because the players believed in his hype. When the hype was stripped away he had to prove himself again and thats still a work in progress at United now.

Anzac

All the examples also have runs on the board as opposed to just image and perception.

Mourinho is using the excuse of rebuilding after LVG & Moyes.

Mourinho would possibly have gotten away with last season had it not been for Conte's achievement thus far with much the same squad - there has been plenty written that Conte was unable to get the players he wanted as is prime targets.
As such Conte is the example of what I want from a manager = he learns, adapts and gets the players and team to perform to expectations.

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