Champions League 2015/2016: Page 54 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Champions League 2015/2016

jones

Claudius wrote:
Savz wrote:
Gabi's handball in the penalty box.

As caused by a man who should've been in the shower at that point. Evens out.
Can't stand Barca. A city-attentive final with Simeone as victor.

Btw, how many Atletico players walk into Arsenal team beyond Godin and Griezmann?

Virtually everyone, hard to compare when you have a way past it manager and the best coach in the world running the teams. Just look at the guys Simeone had out tonight, some of them completely inexperienced at this level like Fernandez who still function perfectly and others who are key performers like CB Lucas who's as old as Iwobi or Saul who despite being younger than the likes of Ox are extremely consistent and disciplined.

Again, hard to compare but I can't see anyone of our team walking into theirs which is how the question should be asked

Mirth

Claudius wrote:
Btw, how many Atletico players walk into Arsenal team beyond Godin and Griezmann?

At. Madrid are a top 5 club....so, on the basis, most of their players would waltz in.

Claudius

Mirth wrote:
Claudius wrote:
Btw, how many Atletico players walk into Arsenal team beyond Godin and Griezmann?

At. Madrid are a top 5 club....so, on the basis, most of their players would waltz in.

Name them. They have a team made up of never knowns and rejects. But to a man, they buy into the blue collar ethos. Helps to have an infield colossus to help lead them. But these are no galacticos.
Imagine Wenger coaching that squad.

jones

y va marquer wrote:
I know, but if every game descended to that level it'd be unwatchable.
Yes we need to give referees a rougher time than we do but the mob attack approach is too much.

That's the decent approach but to be honest I don't see how most refs around warrant that. Humans will always err of course but the over the top protection of any mistake they make and extremely backwards outlook on GLT, video technology and everything else that would actually make their job a lot easier makes it difficult to defend them. You might blame UEFA for that but there are refereeing organisations as well which could do the right thing and ask for help or at least be open to find a consensus, instead they harp on about "factual decisions" in the past.

Yes the mob attack approach is too much but it's refs who invite it in the first place. Refereeing is like parenting, if you're able to explain your actions and reasoning usually the kids will understand at some point, if you rule with an iron fist while fucking up everywhere you shouldn't be surprised when you lose control of your household.

Ricky1985

Oblak, Godin, Juanfran and Felipe Luiz are all amongst the best in their positions in Europe. There's good players like Saul, Kike and Gabi beyond that and a star in Griezmann. They've got a good team and, more importantly, a ton of experience everywhere on the pitch.

Mirth

Claudius wrote:
Mirth wrote:
At. Madrid are a top 5 club....so, on the basis, most of their players would waltz in.

Name them. They have a team made up of never knowns and rejects. But to a man, they buy into the blue collar ethos. Helps to have an infield colossus to help lead them. But these are no galacticos.
Imagine Wenger coaching that squad.

Backward reasoning should be sufficient - how many Arsenal players would get into their first team? Even the likes of Ozil might not meet Simeone's criteria for attacking players despite his obvious talent.

Also, it's been a few years since At. Madrid won the league and reached the CL final, at this stage they're no longer a team of unknowns and rejects. They've been one of the strongest teams around for a while now, sure they've been assembled on a relative budget but that's not really indicative of talent nor is something new

jones

Claudius wrote:
Mirth wrote:
At. Madrid are a top 5 club....so, on the basis, most of their players would waltz in.

Name them. They have a team made up of never knowns and rejects. But to a man, they buy into the blue collar ethos. Helps to have an infield colossus to help lead them. But these are no galacticos.

Imagine Wenger coaching that squad.

Agree with the second paragraph but not the first one. Their 13/14 team was made up of many rejects, the current team however is a mix of seasoned veterans who won the league, cup and EL (nvm the CL final) under Simeone and a good dozen or so highly rated young talents, many of them bought but also a bunch of academy prospects. Even if they made no signings at all they would be a competitive outfit for the next few years.

Claudius

Probably 5-6. Which is very different from Barca, Real, Bayer, where that number is ₁-2 for each team. Yet Atletico consistently keeps up with the big boys. And we struggle to leave group stages.
We need to go and buy a manager who makes a team greater than the sum of its parts. Potchetino was a massive miss. I'm not sure how open to moving Simeone is, particularly with language barrier, but if he shows any interest, we should snatch him.

The reason this is important is that the Gini coefficient in the league is improving. Going forward, the new TV deal will make it harder for rich clubs to overwhelm the league by trotting out stars. Now even Stoke has superstars. More and more, the coach's ability will be the decider.

Mirth

Claudius wrote:
Probably 5-6. Which is very different from Barca, Real, Bayer, where that number is ₁-2 for each team. Yet Atletico consistently keeps up with the big boys. And we struggle to leave group stages.
We need to go and buy a manager who makes a team greater than the sum of its parts. Potchetino was a massive miss. I'm not sure how open to moving Simeone is, particularly with language barrier, but if he shows any interest, we should snatch him.

It really doesn't matter how many players get into the team or not. I get your point about Simeone and most would agree he's the best manager around but the rest is irrelevant

Also I'm not sure where you get the 5-6 from, aside from Cech, Ozil and Sanchez, I don't think At. Madrid would consider any of our players. There's a big gap between them and Barcelona but, equally, there's a big gap between them and us. To imply that you'd have only half their first team suggests that we're on par with them in terms of player quality which I don't think is the case at all. On top of that they have one of the best managers around which you've mentioned

marv3llous

Why are people even talking about signing any of their players or Simeone? Cant you see, that Atletico is a bigger pull than us currently. They reside in a great city, with a great climate and play in a league with Barcelona and Real Madrid and are actually able to challenge and beat them.

We seriously do not have anything other than money to offer over them, but even on that front they are not THAT far behind.

y va marquer

It was an outstanding header from Griezmann

jones

Peach of a cross too, took it immediately with the outside of the boot

MistaT

Phenomenal cross....I was in awe of it

Meatwad

marv3llous wrote:
Why are people even talking about signing any of their players or Simeone? Cant you see, that Atletico is a bigger pull than us currently. They reside in a great city, with a great climate and play in a league with Barcelona and Real Madrid and are actually able to challenge and beat them.

We seriously do not have anything other than money to offer over them, but even on that front they are not THAT far behind.

they are that far behind. and money is the most important thing in football. one of their former players ada turan even said that by joining atletico if he played great he could get a move to barca and he was just really good he could get a move to arsenal. their time as a footballer is short and what they earn needs to last them the rest of their lives.

Clrnc

Griezmann is phenomenal. Never rated him but he is as efficient and as good a finisher you are going to get. Great work from Don to convert him to a proper striker in their system.

The comparison between us and Atletico is laughable. The question should be, how many of our players would actually get into their team? Probably 1 or 2.

The more I think about it, fuck champagne football. I would take Simeone's brand of football any time now. It's not pretty on the eye, but his players are always full of fight and are warriors on the pitch. Look at how many young players shone through for him. Lucas was magnificent last night despite starting his 2nd UCL game only. Saul has been one of the best CMs in europe this season. They epitomize everything that we are not. Honestly don't care about surrounding the referees, dishing out a bit here and there. They are winners, they do everything to win.

arsedocmd

i found myself wanting to count Atleticos players at multiple times, hoping to catch myself counting to twenty. They were swarming everywhere around the ball.

dreamlord

y va marquer wrote:
Their protests versus referees border on open revolt.
They have a hard time comprehending that not every ref is going to favour them to an outrageous degree

Agreed, but Atletico were no better yesterday. There was a moment towards the end of the first half, a nothing tackle on Godin, who went down as usual like he'd been shot and you could see Simeone card waving on the touchline and Atletico players surrounding the ref. Business as usual TBH.

They made Barca look incredibly average yesterday at playing out from the back. Like how teams like Spurs and Southampton do to us in the league.

dreamlord

BTW, this was only Simeone's 2nd win out of 17 attempts vs Barca? Is that stat correct? Pretty shit if its true.

Gunner89

Throw whatever it takes to get Greizmann.

Pony up his clause.

jones

dreamlord wrote:
BTW, this was only Simeone's 2nd win out of 17 attempts vs Barca? Is that stat correct? Pretty shit if its true.

Barcelona average about five losses per 60 game season, it's not exactly surprising. Also those two wins were enough to kick Barcelona out of the CL in two seasons, meanwhile Wenger's only win in eleven attempts was the meaningless 2-1 in 2011.

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