Starting "CM" next season - Ramsey vs Cazorla?: Page 16 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Starting "CM" next season - Ramsey vs Cazorla?

dreamlord

If Ramsey could improve his technique and finishing he could be as good as Muller.

banduan

Ratty's forgetting a few big matches there.

banduan

Coombs wrote:
He's ill-disciplined and has no role in the team

He definitely has a role in the team, just because it can't be defined by letters CM, DM, AM, RM or whatever doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

laymans

Ramsey's role is to attack relentlessly from a deep position. I like the Muller comparison, and I think there are some similarities there if he can improve his goal scoring record.

He's ceased to be a central midfield option, though, and Cazorla in there is better for the team.

est

banduan wrote:
Coombs wrote:
He's ill-disciplined and has no role in the team

He definitely has a role in the team, just because it can't be defined by letters CM, DM, AM, RM or whatever doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Exactly.

Coombs

Nah, nothing to do with acronyms. He charges around the pitch looking for pockets of space to attack, giving us no width and collapsing the vertical structure of the team. It's a mistake, for me.

lorddulaarsenal

Needs to be either the middle man in a midfield three or just behind the striker

Bold Tone

Not sure how much of an inside man Adrian Clarke is but he seems to think his roaming was by design.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20150817/the-breakdown-crystal-palace-a-

Mirth

Well Ramsey himself just said it was by design

Meatwad

yeah no insider info needed, he said it post game.

Coombs

It's obvious that's its by design, and I think it's a poor decision on Wenger's part. It's a non-role to accommodate a non-system. The worst version of wengerball and a waste of a great player.

banduan

Bold Tone wrote:
Not sure how much of an inside man Adrian Clarke is but he seems to think his roaming was by design.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20150817/the-breakdown-crystal-palace-a-

Adrian's typically spot on. If anything, Rambo's a little short of good form at the moment but the role fits him well.

I didn't see the WH match btw but that stat comparison was disgusting!

goon

Coombs wrote:
Nah, nothing to do with acronyms. He charges around the pitch looking for pockets of space to attack, giving us no width and collapsing the vertical structure of the team. It's a mistake, for me.

You say this like it's a bad thing. Given that he could have easily had a couple of goals and kept finding himself with the ball in between the lines in dangerous situations, I'd say it works very well.

Coombs

otfgoon wrote:
Coombs wrote:
Nah, nothing to do with acronyms. He charges around the pitch looking for pockets of space to attack, giving us no width and collapsing the vertical structure of the team. It's a mistake, for me.

You say this like it's a bad thing. Given that he could have easily had a couple of goals and kept finding himself with the ball in between the lines in dangerous situations, I'd say it works very well.

In the meantime we have no defensive shape down the right flank, relying on Bellerin to hold down the fort while simultaneously trying to provide width, also making us light in midfield. Ramsey doesn't ever beat his man on the outside. Sanchez rarely will. It's just not logical, and clearly makes it more difficult for us to win games.

If he starts whacking in goals every week then I'll shut up about it (unless we subsequently lose when teams target Cazorla and our right flank and we concede cheap goals).

goon

You say it makes it more difficult for us to win games but to the contrary, we went on a very long winning run with Ramsey on the right with a pretty mean defence at the back end of last season. Against West Ham Ramsey was in the middle, we lost, against Palace he was on the right, we won. Some of our best performances, Liverpool, City, Villa came with Ramsey on the right too.

If feels like some of you guys are speculating on the issues Ramsey on the right brings, rather than just looking at what actually unfolds on the pitch. I actually prefer Ramsey in the middle in theory, but it's hard to argue with the results.

laymans

It's exactly the same argument process regarding Cazorla. He's small, he's weak, we're going to get overrun. We haven't been overrun in the midfield with Cazorla in there since Liverpool man raped us, but yeah it's going to happen again any time now.

Clrnc

otfgoon wrote:
You say it makes it more difficult for us to win games but to the contrary, we went on a very long winning run with Ramsey on the right with a pretty mean defence at the back end of last season. Against West Ham Ramsey was in the middle, we lost, against Palace he was on the right, we won. Some of our best performances, Liverpool, City, Villa came with Ramsey on the right too.

If feels like some of you guys are speculating on the issues Ramsey on the right brings, rather than just looking at what actually unfolds on the pitch. I actually prefer Ramsey in the middle in theory, but it's hard to argue with the results.

I am pretty sure before Ramsey came back to start on the right, we were achieving good results as well.

It's more of the fact that our football last season only got better when Cazorla was moved centrally.

Qwiss

Our football improved when a whole load of things happened at once. Kos, Giroud and Ozil all got fit. Coq and Bellerin broke through. Ospina replaced Szcz. Gabriel added cover and competition at CB. Then Ramsey, Jack, Theo all became available.

Trying to claim any one thing is the cause of our pick up in form last season is a bit of a red herring.

goon

Not saying we were winning because of Ramsey anyway, the point being made is that it worked with him on the right and a lot of the issue being mentioned on here were not apparent.

Klaus

Qwiss! wrote:
Our football improved when a whole load of things happened at once. Kos, Giroud and Ozil all got fit. Coq and Bellerin broke through. Ospina replaced Szcz. Gabriel added cover and competition at CB. Then Ramsey, Jack, Theo all became available.

Trying to claim any one thing is the cause of our pick up in form last season is a bit of a red herring.

Yep, the reality is that our form improved rapidly because we got our best players back around the same time. The timing was right too; they were fresh and able to build form while everyone else started to get worn down by the heavy fixture schedule post Christmas.

It was a great 15 games or so, but once they'd settled the same flaws as always started to appear. I don't think we found a solution to anything last season. The only thing our months of good form showed unequivocally was that better players give you better results. You'd think we would have signed some better players this summer with that in mind.

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