Starting "CM" next season - Ramsey vs Cazorla?: Page 12 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Starting "CM" next season - Ramsey vs Cazorla?

QuincyAbeyie

Rex wrote:
Yeah, so Bellerin not playing MUST be the reason we lost yesterday then...
All I'm saying is that it is a bit too simplistic IMO to just look at one parameter and deduce that it is because that particular thing has changed is the reason why everything crumbled.

Good thing I didn't deduce anything, which was made clear by me saying "All I know is", instead of saying it was the reason.

You made a good point though, if we don't sign anyone it wouldn't be the worst idea to continue playing Giroud and Bellerin.

Rex

Don't forget Ospina.

I'll tell you what; I'd be happy if Wenger just made a damn choice! It is ridiculous to go into a game with a front three of Cazorla, Giroud and Chambo, in front of Özil who isn't exactly known for his goal scoring prowess. How can you do that?! It was bleeding obvious that BOTH Giroud and Walcott needed to be on the pitch for us to pose a legit goal threat. Also, Santi on the flank hasn't worked in ages. What he does is NOT keep width, NOT make any vertical runs, and instead he goes central, thus further congesting the very area where we prefer attacking in. So, Wenger should just make a choice between Cazorla and Ramsey to play in the middle. When Alexis is back he MUST make that very choice, so why not now for the sake of balance on the pitch?! I'd of course prefer Ramsey in the middle, but to not make the choice at all reeks of cowardice on Wenger's part IMO.

QuincyAbeyie

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
You made a good point though[size=x-small],[/size][size=medium] if we don't sign anyone[/size] it wouldn't be the worst idea to continue playing Giroud and Bellerin.

Rex wrote:
Don't forget Ospina.

Cech is a signing, Rex. If not, yes, it would be stupid to use someone else than Ospina.

Clrnc

Totally agree with Rex. Obviously we love Cazorla's control and dictating play in midfield, obviously we love it when Ramsey scores goal with a lung bursting run from deep in midfield, but we definitely do not want to see either of them shunted out on the wings. Just make a bloody decision, start just one of them centrally.

Also agree that Ramsey's pathetic display yesterday was down to him being ahead of the ball 80% of the time. It's bordering on ridiculous.

Nela

I still just don't know what to make of Ramsey. He's always been lacking technically, but I'm beginning to wonder if he just lacks intelligence.

Aside from his great instinct for goals, his game seems to be made up of a constant string of bad decisions or lack of awareness combined with an amazing engine which often draws attention away from those mistakes. He's certainly capable of an occasional brilliant pass, but maybe those are just more the exception. I really don't know.

Mirth

He's back to his bad habits - remember when Wenger told him to simplify his game and he just sat back in early 2013? He needs to be reminded of that

Segway

Agreed. He's too volatile to play as CM.

Klaus

I think the problem is a lack of clear roles. It means no one really takes responsibility for the shape. The plan from Wenger today was to overload the midfield centrally and it didn't work very well.

That said, I thought Ramsey was the best of the midfielders we had out there.

Qwiss

I can't understand peoples reactions to Ramsey. I thought he did ok today, not amazing but not bad at all.

Captain

Best midfielder at the club, no question.

Qwiss

Mirth wrote:
He's back to his bad habits - remember when Wenger told him to simplify his game and he just sat back in early 2013? He needs to be reminded of that

But why would he sit back when he was started on the right wing? The only real issue with him today was that he was always in the middle but thats Wengers fault for playing a centre mid on the wing and its something Wenger has been doing for a decade now.

dreamlord

He almost cost us a goal because of his awful touch IIRC. He can't play CM for Arsenal if he can't control the fucking ball 3 times out of 10.

Klaus

Captain wrote:
Best midfielder at the club, no question.

Definitely.

Mirth

Qwiss! wrote:
Mirth wrote:
He's back to his bad habits - remember when Wenger told him to simplify his game and he just sat back in early 2013? He needs to be reminded of that

But why would he sit back when he was started on the right wing? The only real issue with him today was that he was always in the middle but thats Wengers fault for playing a centre mid on the wing and its something Wenger has been doing for a decade now.

I mean that's why he's not getting his preferred role in midfield. To be fair to Wenger, he's always had a hard working midfielder on one wing to compensate for a more attacking left wing. It's just that since Ljungberg, none of the players have fully embraced the role

dreamlord

Jack's a perma crock, Arteta's old, Cazorla's too weak - the standard of CMs at the club isn't exactly very high at the moment.

Clrnc

Qwiss! wrote:
Mirth wrote:
He's back to his bad habits - remember when Wenger told him to simplify his game and he just sat back in early 2013? He needs to be reminded of that

But why would he sit back when he was started on the right wing? The only real issue with him today was that he was always in the middle but thats Wengers fault for playing a centre mid on the wing and its something Wenger has been doing for a decade now.

He was playing on the right wing? He was everywhere except on the right wing and it completely spoilt our shape. Every bloody attack went through Monreal, Ozil and Alexis on the left till Ox came on. He was awful in possession in the first half.

After Coquelin went off, he went into the middle and was instantly more useful. Still did some brainless stray passes to Palace, one of which directly led to Wickham hitting the post. I agree with Klaus that the lack of distinct roles for him exactly is killing his game. He is always someone who is a slow starter to the season and gets better with more matches so it's not a surprise really.

Qwiss

Just looking at the stats there and Ramsey lost the ball 4 times today, same as Cazorla and less than Sanchez (5). He also had more touches than anyone else on the team.

Rohit

He was excellent in how he executed his game against Chelsea, even if it was a friendly. He showed restraint and chose his moments to bomb forward. If he sticks to the basics, for me, he still is one of the best CMs in the League. It is all nice and good that Wenger censures him in a subtle manner in post / pre match interviews, it will be better if he can instruct him during training and give some directions on what is expected of him as a CM.

Klaus

Clrnc wrote:
He was playing on the right wing? He was everywhere except on the right wing and it completely spoilt our shape.

But this is the whole idea behind playing an extra midfielder instead of a winger. Ramsey spends all his time centrally. In theory we have an extra player in there. In reality it's chaos.

But more importantly: We were making sure to overload the central midfield against Crystal Palace. It tells you everything you need to know about the current squad. Wenger doesn't trust them to hold their own. He doesn't think Coquelin can handle the passing so he puts Cazorla in there, but Cazorla can't press, tackle or run vertically so he puts Ramsey in there too.

The one problem all three of them have in common is that they can't build the game from deep. But then again, that was never Ramsey's job description.

Temo

An away game at Palace is exactly the game he's made for. He looked decent enough but his passing wasn't good enough and killed the fluidity of some of our attacks. Ramsey is someone you want on the end of attacks, not building them.

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