Players Out: Page 221 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Players Out

Anzac

Rohit wrote:
You're obsessed. It's ridiculous. Finding a way to insert Wenger in some conversation.

Just making the point about my issues with Xhaka remaining at the club under any circumstances as being similar to my issues about AW remaining at the club from that time.

On a different tack even if I didn't have the same feelings based upon the incident, IMO Xhaka is a flawed player who despite perhaps being our most experienced midfielder is simply not good enough to build a midfield around at this level in the PL, let alone a team. I also feel the same way about Koscielney & IMO both their actions are worse than RVP going to Man Utd & I can't blame him for doing so in much the same way as I can't blame PEA for wanting out of the current shit fight.

And yeah I do still blame AW & Co for a lot of the shit we are still going through.

speedy

Anzac wrote:
speedy wrote:
Or midfield lacks any real quality without xhaka. The defense has looked dire without kos for years and the midfield has been dire without xhaka for years.

Fans just want to consistently abuse him and him to sit around in the reserves. Who benefits from that scenario?

As a club we're supposed to be classy and stand for something along those lines - as such any player who tells the Home supporters to fuck off can go do one = end of story for me, let alone that he hasn't issued an apology as opposed to some sort of justification for his actions. Then there is the issue re the armband and shirt & no apology to his team mates.
But that's just me - I'd have sacked AW at least 4x the summer following the end of season relegation form following the CCup loss, the going against the BoD twice re the Fabregas sale followed by the 2-8 capitulation at OT.

The endless abuse of xhaka isn't classy. You can't stand on that "classy" defense after the endless abuse he has taken. Essentialy he became a punching bag for fustrations despite being our best midfielder. As emery said after he left we need xhaka on and off the field. The players voted him captain. The man cares probably more than any other player we have. Sure hes not the ideal midfielder but when he's the best we've got what's the point abusing him to breaking point then when he finally snaps then keeping him in the reserves as some kind of weird punishment when you admit youre intentions are to sell him anyway. Is that what classy looks like? To me it's shameful.

Ray

speedy wrote:
Anzac wrote:
As a club we're supposed to be classy and stand for something along those lines - as such any player who tells the Home supporters to fuck off can go do one = end of story for me, let alone that he hasn't issued an apology as opposed to some sort of justification for his actions. Then there is the issue re the armband and shirt & no apology to his team mates.
But that's just me - I'd have sacked AW at least 4x the summer following the end of season relegation form following the CCup loss, the going against the BoD twice re the Fabregas sale followed by the 2-8 capitulation at OT.

The endless abuse of xhaka isn't classy. You can't stand on that "classy" defense after the endless abuse he has taken. Essentialy he became a punching bag for fustrations despite being our best midfielder. As emery said after he left we need xhaka on and off the field. The players voted him captain. The man cares probably more than any other player we have. Sure hes not the ideal midfielder but when he's the best we've got what's the point abusing him to breaking point then when he finally snaps then keeping him in the reserves as some kind of weird punishment when you admit youre intentions are to sell him anyway. Is that what classy looks like? To me it's shameful.

At the same time you abuse Ozil and want him out badly, despite him being the best creative midfielder we've got?

speedy

Ray wrote:
speedy wrote:
The endless abuse of xhaka isn't classy. You can't stand on that "classy" defense after the endless abuse he has taken. Essentialy he became a punching bag for fustrations despite being our best midfielder. As emery said after he left we need xhaka on and off the field. The players voted him captain. The man cares probably more than any other player we have. Sure hes not the ideal midfielder but when he's the best we've got what's the point abusing him to breaking point then when he finally snaps then keeping him in the reserves as some kind of weird punishment when you admit youre intentions are to sell him anyway. Is that what classy looks like? To me it's shameful.

At the same time you abuse Ozil and want him out badly, despite him being the best creative midfielder we've got?

I don't recall abusing ozil, frankly i dont remember what i said. I remember thinking he was likely to be unmotivated. I remember him being lazy in preformances. Then he became unmotivated and i said he was worth selling. I don't mind people not likeing players even prefering them t be sold is fine. But xhaka has got endless abuse on twitter and social media for years. As well as fans giving him shit at the stadium. That's not classy. And I've certainly never sent a player abuse or abused a player at a stadium.

Ray

Fair enough not abusing, but you didn't want him playing, which is counter to your argument that our best players should be playing if they're the best in their position. You see Ozil as lazy, others see Xhaka as error prone, so don't want them playing, even if technically they are the best in their position at this moment in time. Others see younger players in those position who may be worth investing in and giving playing time, in the short run it may cost points, but in the long run we may have a player worth £50m to sell.

Ricky1985

Arsenal as a football club is a very different thing to the Arsenal fanbase, and certainly not related to the morons that abuse football players on social media.

Therefore, Granit Xhaka being abused on Twitter is no reflection whatever on Arsenal, neither the football club, nor the fanbase for that matter.

The club generally act with more class than other clubs in their dealing with supporters, players, managers and other clubs. That reputation has been forged over decades.

Xhaka, as captain of the club, trudged off the pitch at the Emirates at a snail's pace, throwing a tantrum because he both didn't like being subbed and because a few thousand fans were happy about it, in a game when we were losing, off the back off a terrible run of bad results; the fans told him to get off the damn pitch quicker in no uncertain terms and he told them to fuck off; instead of apologising after the heat of the moment he decided he was going to cowardly use the excuse that "Arsenal fans" had abused him on twitter to justify his actions.

Good fucking riddance.

Jed

Excellently put.

Anzac

Ray wrote:
Fair enough not abusing, but you didn't want him playing, which is counter to your argument that our best players should be playing if they're the best in their position. You see Ozil as lazy, others see Xhaka as error prone, so don't want them playing, even if technically they are the best in their position at this moment in time. Others see younger players in those position who may be worth investing in and giving playing time, in the short run it may cost points, but in the long run we may have a player worth £50m to sell.

Since joining Xhaka has the highest number of individual errors in the PL leading to goals scored.

Anzac

Ricky1985 wrote:
Arsenal as a football club is a very different thing to the Arsenal fanbase, and certainly not related to the morons that abuse football players on social media.

Therefore, Granit Xhaka being abused on Twitter is no reflection whatever on Arsenal, neither the football club, nor the fanbase for that matter.

The club generally act with more class than other clubs in their dealing with supporters, players, managers and other clubs. That reputation has been forged over decades.

Xhaka, as captain of the club, trudged off the pitch at the Emirates at a snail's pace, throwing a tantrum because he both didn't like being subbed and because a few thousand fans were happy about it, in a game when we were losing, off the back off a terrible run of bad results; the fans told him to get off the damn pitch quicker in no uncertain terms and he told them to fuck off; instead of apologising after the heat of the moment he decided he was going to cowardly use the excuse that "Arsenal fans" had abused him on twitter to justify his actions.

Good fucking riddance.

Saves me from responding but I will add 2 points:

1 - My recollection is that the jeering didn't turn to booing until he reefed off the Captain's armband and it fell to the ground, and he looked at it but decided to leave it there and walked past it = he escalated the incident himself;

2 - Whilst I do not condone internet trolls or bullying there is a simple response to them = don't go there or employ someone else to do so on your behalf. No one forces you to join social media.

Anzac

On a separate note there are reports again that PEA has told the club he wants to leave in Jan.

Claudius

Anzac, disagree with point 2. Was watching that shit show Star Wars movie this weekend and felt really bad for Kelly Marie Tran. She had to completely go off social media because of trolls. Think about your own social media activities being curtailed because of the bullying of worthless socially-stunted animals. This is the position Xhaka has been in with abuse aimed at his wife and child

Where Xhaka might have had an issue is conflating the abuses of online trolls with the frustrations of match-going fans, and then later not using the cooling period to not just seek an armistice.

Claudius

Anzac wrote:
On a separate note there are reports again that PEA has told the club he wants to leave in Jan.

we should’ve made Mustafi captain

speedy

Ricky1985 wrote:
Arsenal as a football club is a very different thing to the Arsenal fanbase, and certainly not related to the morons that abuse football players on social media.

Therefore, Granit Xhaka being abused on Twitter is no reflection whatever on Arsenal, neither the football club, nor the fanbase for that matter.

The club generally act with more class than other clubs in their dealing with supporters, players, managers and other clubs. That reputation has been forged over decades.

Xhaka, as captain of the club, trudged off the pitch at the Emirates at a snail's pace, throwing a tantrum because he both didn't like being subbed and because a few thousand fans were happy about it, in a game when we were losing, off the back off a terrible run of bad results; the fans told him to get off the damn pitch quicker in no uncertain terms and he told them to fuck off; instead of apologising after the heat of the moment he decided he was going to cowardly use the excuse that "Arsenal fans" had abused him on twitter to justify his actions.

Good fucking riddance.

The guy has been getting Horrific abuse of arsenal fans for years. On a scale other Arsenal players don't have to endure. He has been bullied and took it for years and eventaully he got ground down by it.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
Anzac, disagree with point 2. Was watching that shit show Star Wars movie this weekend and felt really bad for Kelly Marie Tran. She had to completely go off social media because of trolls. Think about your own social media activities being curtailed because of the bullying of worthless socially-stunted animals. This is the position Xhaka has been in with abuse aimed at his wife and child

Where Xhaka might have had an issue is conflating the abuses of online trolls with the frustrations of match-going fans, and then later not using the cooling period to not just seek an armistice.

I'm not trying to belittle the impact if social media abuse and the impacts it has - particularly in regards to those who are vulnerable, and I have some strong views as to what should happen to some of these undesirables. That said the first step when confronted or targeted with abuse should always be to leave or switch it off to deprive them of the opportunity and a target.

Anzac

speedy wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
Arsenal as a football club is a very different thing to the Arsenal fanbase, and certainly not related to the morons that abuse football players on social media.

Therefore, Granit Xhaka being abused on Twitter is no reflection whatever on Arsenal, neither the football club, nor the fanbase for that matter.

The club generally act with more class than other clubs in their dealing with supporters, players, managers and other clubs. That reputation has been forged over decades.

Xhaka, as captain of the club, trudged off the pitch at the Emirates at a snail's pace, throwing a tantrum because he both didn't like being subbed and because a few thousand fans were happy about it, in a game when we were losing, off the back off a terrible run of bad results; the fans told him to get off the damn pitch quicker in no uncertain terms and he told them to fuck off; instead of apologising after the heat of the moment he decided he was going to cowardly use the excuse that "Arsenal fans" had abused him on twitter to justify his actions.

Good fucking riddance.

The guy has been getting Horrific abuse of arsenal fans for years. On a scale other Arsenal players don't have to endure. He has been bullied and took it for years and eventaully he got ground down by it.

Are you talking match day fans or social media? IMO they are 2 different scenarios where the social media abuse has no means to establish the true credentials of those who may claim to be AFC supporters.
TBH I'd be surprised if he was targeted for anything more than Mustafi from the match going supporters.

Just to clarify - if you are targeted for abuse there is nothing forcing you to continue to expose yourself to it. Change the settings on the account to disable comments, close the account or get someone to manage it for you to act as a filter, report them. Social media is not mandatory.
I don't think any of the abuse on match days holds a candle to what we see from ultras elsewhere, but even then if it upsets you that much then get some counselling and/or ask for a transfer to bring it to the club's attention.

Bottom line you do not have to keep yourself exposed, and if you know someone who is being targeted reach out to them in the same way we do regards to any potential mental health issue.

FEBravo

Let's also not forget that Xhaka! is not the brightest bulb in the tanning salon

speedy

Anzac wrote:
speedy wrote:
The guy has been getting Horrific abuse of arsenal fans for years. On a scale other Arsenal players don't have to endure. He has been bullied and took it for years and eventaully he got ground down by it.

Are you talking match day fans or social media? IMO they are 2 different scenarios where the social media abuse has no means to establish the true credentials of those who may claim to be AFC supporters.
TBH I'd be surprised if he was targeted for anything more than Mustafi from the match going supporters.

Just to clarify - if you are targeted for abuse there is nothing forcing you to continue to expose yourself to it. Change the settings on the account to disable comments, close the account or get someone to manage it for you to act as a filter, report them. Social media is not mandatory.
I don't think any of the abuse on match days holds a candle to what we see from ultras elsewhere, but even then if it upsets you that much then get some counselling and/or ask for a transfer to bring it to the club's attention.

Bottom line you do not have to keep yourself exposed, and if you know someone who is being targeted reach out to them in the same way we do regards to any potential mental health issue.

He got a completely unfair level of abuse thrown at him on social media, arsenal fan tv, in the stadium, and im sure on the street when hes just walking around. And it went on for years.

But thankfully you've found a solution, he just needs to ignore it. People being abused for years just need to ignore it. Problem solved?

Qwiss

Ramsey got the same shit, then they whinged when he left.

Anzac

speedy wrote:
Anzac wrote:
Are you talking match day fans or social media? IMO they are 2 different scenarios where the social media abuse has no means to establish the true credentials of those who may claim to be AFC supporters.
TBH I'd be surprised if he was targeted for anything more than Mustafi from the match going supporters.

Just to clarify - if you are targeted for abuse there is nothing forcing you to continue to expose yourself to it. Change the settings on the account to disable comments, close the account or get someone to manage it for you to act as a filter, report them. Social media is not mandatory.
I don't think any of the abuse on match days holds a candle to what we see from ultras elsewhere, but even then if it upsets you that much then get some counselling and/or ask for a transfer to bring it to the club's attention.

Bottom line you do not have to keep yourself exposed, and if you know someone who is being targeted reach out to them in the same way we do regards to any potential mental health issue.

He got a completely unfair level of abuse thrown at him on social media, arsenal fan tv, in the stadium, and im sure on the street when hes just walking around. And it went on for years.

But thankfully you've found a solution, he just needs to ignore it. People being abused for years just need to ignore it. Problem solved?

Really? Where did I say to ignore it?
All you're doing is painting a victim mentality with no options or accountability.

lorddulaarsenal

Changed my view on Xhaka leaving. Arteta might just get the best out of him. Don’t get me wrong, I still think he can be replaced or upgraded but not having to do that in the immediate future would allow us to focus on getting in a centreback and another forward - feels like the attack needs a spark

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