That's very harsh. When you sign a batch of talents you'd be mad to expect all of them to turn out great, never mind make it at a place like Arsenal. Ramsey as you point out is a star, Wilshere and Ox still have every chance of making it here. Gibbs have put in a lot of good shifts for us through the years. That's four out of the five original british core. I'd say it turned out very well for us all things considered.

Seeing as all but Gibbs have yet to reach peak years it seems too early to call definitively.
For me the fact that all of those players, apart from Jenkinson, have had their early years dogged by injury means that I mostly blame those injuries for holding the players back.
Even Ramsey, this season and last, didn't get a clear run.
I'm only going to be able to assess them when they're fit enough to make the first team for whole seasons.

marv3llous wrote:

Is the much talked about "British Core" already dangerously close to be called a failure?

Oldie:

Walcott - currently going through a contract dispute, after a year long injury lay off, possibly leaving this summer

The original 5:

Ramsey - crown jewel of the project, will have a magnificent career here
Wilshere - clearly talented, but has no certain position in our current setup, been injured for most of the time and off the field problems with discipline and behaviour
Gibbs - not claimed a starting spot, at the age of 26 unlikely to make a huge leap forward in progress
Oxlade Chamberlain - Currently looking like a probable starter for us, but also, plagued by injury problems constantly
Jenkinson - probably sold this summer as he is now a 3rd or even 4th choice RB at the club

New boys:

Chambers - possibly has a future at CB and is versatile enough to cover at fullback positions, but needs years of development
Welbeck - the real mystery man in terms of ability - has all the ingredients to be a success, but 4 league goals is still very small haul for 18 starts / 25 appearances, probably needs a second season to find his feet

As we can see, almost all of them have doubts over their future or place in the team. Only certain starter is Ramsey, rest of the bunch can go either way. When we were starting many of them, our team was in an awful run of form so it isnt exactly an encouraging sign.

Walcott- Never a world class player but an effective goalscorer and assister if played. He's been fit for months now. Keep unless we get Sterling/Reus/Greizmann.
Ramsey- Stellar in a deep CM role last season. Wenger trying his best to ruin his form in that experiment early in the season where he was the AMC and now probably worse at RM.
Gibbs- Not consistent and injury prone. If he wasn't from the academy he'd have been got rid some time ago. I hope Wenger has the sense to sell him while his stock is high enough to get 10-12m like Chelsea got for Bertrand and that can be used to get a really good young left back.
Chamberlain- The most talented of the lot. Injuries haven't helped him. He can be world class.
Wilshere- Always thought he had outstanding form in the 2010-11 season and that carried onto the preseason in the summer with a fine performance against Cologne. It's all about injuries but right now I struggle to see a role that exists for him as a starter. Some people will say as a winger but that's with no basis whatsoever. I think he might well leave this summer. Euro 2016 happens next year and at the moment he's not a starter here in his central positions. With an addition of a defensive minded midfielder likely that's another person he has to get in front of.
Chambers- Plenty of promise but too early to say. Only as a centre-back though.
Welbeck- Not a mystery for me. He needs too much work and he's not even trusted now to start up-front since Giroud got suspended in the league.
Jenkinson- To be sold for a tidy profit.

Rampage wrote:

That's very harsh. When you sign a batch of talents you'd be mad to expect all of them to turn out great, never mind make it at a place like Arsenal. Ramsey as you point out is a star, Wilshere and Ox still have every chance of making it here. Gibbs have put in a lot of good shifts for us through the years. That's four out of the five original british core. I'd say it turned out very well for us all things considered.

Agree, you'd be dreaming to expect all of them to cement themselves as first 11 players. Having said that, only Ramsey and AOC look like they have that something 'special' going for them. Arguably Wilshere as well but Wenger's recent quotes on him weren't encouraging either.

The homegrown rule basically forced us to invest on English players, so I wouldn't call it a project of ours, and certainly not a failed one as we still have the best English players as underwhelming as we think they may be.

At least we're not looking to pay 30-50M on Wilshere and Barkley, that alone makes this "project" worth it.

The lists looks like a pretty decent list of players to me. They aren't all starters but I'd rather have Gibbs and Jenkison than 2 foreign players of a similar standard. Thats the point really. There is no English player at Sanchez or Ozils level so you aren't going to have a first 11 littered with British talent.

Look at all our rivals and where their English stars are. Bar one or two exceptions its the weakest areas of their squad. This summer you'll see Chelsea try to upgrade at centre half, the only area they have English players. Harts probably only kept his place at City due to being English. Lampard and Milner are squaddies on the way out.

The fact that we have players like Gibbs, Jenkinson, Chamberlain, Chambers as squad options and Wishere as a would be starter if he could get fit goes to show we picked mostly the right British players.

I think the British core has been a coherent and successful policy in at least one sense—I think it's been a tangible contributor to the improved morale we've enjoyed over the last two or three seasons.

Did Wenger himself ever actually use the words "British core" when describing these players? Or was it just the media?

In any case i don't think this is a project, it's more the identity of the club.

I think it's impressive we've gotten this much out of some of those players. At the end of the day it was always about the British top end talent, i.e. Wilshere, Ramsey and Chamberlain. It's been a definite success in that sense. Chelsea, United and City would bite our hand off for either of them.

I see 4 or 5 very good or potentially first teams players there along with a couple of good or potentially good squad players. Not sure how that can be considered a failure at all. Most importantly though, it's hardly a project.

Walcott also deserves a pretty strong mention. Been pretty much the most productive wide player in the league since 2009 or so.

And the most injury prone.

Doesn't take away from what he produces when he is fit though.

For how good they are we've got them cheap as others have said. Mainly because Ramsey at £5m was a steal, Wilshere was free, and Ox and Walcott are also great value for money in today's market too. Since the year where they all signed their new contracts, I'd say only Ramsey has been great value for money in terms of what they've contributed. No idea what type of money Gibbs is on though - maybe he's about par if he's on lower wages. I don't doubt Wilshere, Ox (and probably Walcott too) would be top class footballers right now if it weren't for injuries but, well - they do get injuries and they haven't contributed much. 

As a side point (and I mean this in the least bitchiest way possible), I find that relatively more foreign fans can't wait to stick the boot in to our English players, in a way that is more than just about their football performance, potential or behaviour. Can understand the concerns about Gibbs stagnating because it seems he has been fit, but for the rest, injuries (and only injuries) are preventing them and that's it. Not behvaiour, not because they 'can't find a position', they just can't stay fit enough to build on any momentum in form. 3 months out, they start again. e.g. Found it interesting recently that Ramsey recently said his decision-making on the pitch improves when his fitness levels are better. I'm sure you can read many fans that go on about it like it's a completely innate thing that some players are too stupid to get right. 

If Wilshere and Chamberlain get over their injury issues and fulfill their potential, then along with Ramsey (who just needs a bit more consistency) I think the "core" should be considered a success. Every chance that Chambers can be part of it too, given a couple more seasons in and around the first team.

The level of young British talent at other top clubs is shocking in comparison to what Arsenal has.

The way I look at it

Walcott - Getting marginalized at the side, can't see a future here for him with a starting spot, but very useful as a super sub.
Ramsey - Not much to say here, good player and is long term to our plans.
Wilshere - Most talented out of the lot, just need to get rid of his injury problems.
Gibbs - A good LB backup
Oxlade Chamberlain - A superb player to have to rotate on the wings. Full of energy and desire.
Jenkinson - I will loan him out again next season and then decide once Debuchy contract is up
Chambers - A future top CB
Welbeck - Judge him again next season. Have confidence Wenger can improve him

Not sure what's the issue here? I think in terms of the real disappointment, it would probably have to be Walcott and Gibbs only. Walcott hasn't set the world alight compared to his hype (due to injuries and other issues) and Gibbs has stagnated badly this season. Other than that, shouldn't be a problem. They are all good buys and value for money.

Gunner89 wrote:

marv3llous wrote:

Is the much talked about "British Core" already dangerously close to be called a failure?

Oldie:

Walcott - currently going through a contract dispute, after a year long injury lay off, possibly leaving this summer

The original 5:

Ramsey - crown jewel of the project, will have a magnificent career here
Wilshere - clearly talented, but has no certain position in our current setup, been injured for most of the time and off the field problems with discipline and behaviour
Gibbs - not claimed a starting spot, at the age of 26 unlikely to make a huge leap forward in progress
Oxlade Chamberlain - Currently looking like a probable starter for us, but also, plagued by injury problems constantly
Jenkinson - probably sold this summer as he is now a 3rd or even 4th choice RB at the club

New boys:

Chambers - possibly has a future at CB and is versatile enough to cover at fullback positions, but needs years of development
Welbeck - the real mystery man in terms of ability - has all the ingredients to be a success, but 4 league goals is still very small haul for 18 starts / 25 appearances, probably needs a second season to find his feet

As we can see, almost all of them have doubts over their future or place in the team. Only certain starter is Ramsey, rest of the bunch can go either way. When we were starting many of them, our team was in an awful run of form so it isnt exactly an encouraging sign.

Walcott- Never a world class player but an effective goalscorer and assister if played. He's been fit for months now. Keep unless we get Sterling/Reus/Greizmann.
Ramsey- Stellar in a deep CM role last season. Wenger trying his best to ruin his form in that experiment early in the season where he was the AMC and now probably worse at RM.
Gibbs- Not consistent and injury prone. If he wasn't from the academy he'd have been got rid some time ago. I hope Wenger has the sense to sell him while his stock is high enough to get 10-12m like Chelsea got for Bertrand and that can be used to get a really good young left back.
Chamberlain- The most talented of the lot. Injuries haven't helped him. He can be world class.
Wilshere- Always thought he had outstanding form in the 2010-11 season and that carried onto the preseason in the summer with a fine performance against Cologne. It's all about injuries but right now I struggle to see a role that exists for him as a starter. Some people will say as a winger but that's with no basis whatsoever. I think he might well leave this summer. Euro 2016 happens next year and at the moment he's not a starter here in his central positions. With an addition of a defensive minded midfielder likely that's another person he has to get in front of.
Chambers- Plenty of promise but too early to say. Only as a centre-back though.
Welbeck- Not a mystery for me. He needs too much work and he's not even trusted now to start up-front since Giroud got suspended in the league.
Jenkinson- To be sold for a tidy profit.

Agree with all this except for Welbeck. He's had a good season, has ridiculous athletic potential and is coming into his prime as well. He's a keeper. I'm also not sure it's "all" about injuries for Wilshere either. Even when he hasn't been injured, he really hasn't produced much of anything. I think there's at least an 80% chance he'll end up as a salary albatross that  the club will be kicking themselves over for not getting rid of when his stock was high.

Whilst I agree with your overall point Walcott is well worth his fee in what he's contributed for the club. Walcott has been a consistent performer and produced more for the club than Ramsey ever has up until his injury last season.

PS: I'm not talking about any one single game by the way before anyone tries "reminding" me of Ramsey's FA Cup final goal.

Edit: This way for Patters

Loylz wrote:

Whilst I agree with your overall point Walcott is well worth his fee in what he's contributed for the club. Walcott has been a consistent performer and produced more for the club than Ramsey ever has up until his injury last season.

PS: I'm not talking about any one single game by the way before anyone tries "reminding" me of Ramsey's FA Cup final goal.

Edit: This way for Patters

Agree - Walcott been here for 9 years and done a lot of good. But I thought this 'British core' idea was around about the time they were all lining up with that picture, signing new contracts which was supposed to signal that they were ready to kick on and become important players.  I think Walcott signed a few months after, but that big injury has meant current (£80k/100k a week?) deal hasn't been good value for us so far. That's what I meant by only Ramsey has been able to play a big part. 

Time frame is important. Overall the British players have done a good job considering what they were bought for. Last 2 years has been difficult for them.