Mesut coming out of his shell?: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Mesut coming out of his shell?

jones

ultimate_warrior wrote:
Rex wrote:
That's just not true though. Özil played about 90 percent of his games under Moron at 10, and he was voted Germany's best player 2 or 3 times playing in that same role.

I'd also argue that it would make a lot more sense to play Ramsey in midfield and Özil at 10 and just tell our FBs to be a lot more conservative in their attacking. We are a top class left winger short, but a player like Alexis doesn't need an overlapping FB. Chambo at his best doesn't either, but he is too inconsistent still, and that's why we need one more.

------------Welbeck
Reus--------Özil-------Alexis
-------Ramsey(sort of)

Let those players do the attacking - the rest of you fuckers stay the fuck back.

Yeah, just like Wenger played Ozil centrally for all of last season. Mourinho started using Ozil on the left in all of the bigger games, after he learnt many hard lessons. Mourinho played Ozil on the left against Borussia Dortmund in the 1st CL leg in 2013 for example, which ironically didn't work either. Low then did exactly the same when he used Ozil exclusively on the left for the last World Cup. Why would two people who know Ozil on a personal level, decide to shift him to the left, if he was flawless in midfield like some seem to think? He then signs for Arsenal, Wenger also gave Ozil that opportunity, we all saw the two sides of the German, the creative skilful genius and the pansy petulant, Wenger then drew the same conclusion. In cases like this, you just have to trust the people in the know.

Löw played Özil on the right in Brazil, so did Mourinho when he played him wide in a 4-3-3. Not saying that Özil can't work out on the wing, just that it needs to be on the other side.

Klaus

I'm sure he played left. He replaced Reus out there who got injured and missed the tournament. That's also the only reason he played on the flank.

Biggus

'Bout time he started coming out of his shell, he's been here for a season and a half and has done fuck all to justify his transfer fee.

Bold Tone

Not enough for you i can understand but fuck all ?
You sure?

goon

We no longer play with a no 10 and I certainly don't think we should change our formation for Ozil or any individual. Playing wide in the new formation means he doesn't really have to track back like he used to either.

Him in the false 9 role with Sanchez and Theo wide is interesting though.

ultimatewarrior

Klaus wrote:
Ramsey's monster form coincided with having Özil in front of him to create space too. No one called us defensively frail during those months.

Then we turned up at the Etihad stadium and got hit for 6. We were torn to shreds by City's midfield. It was obvious that as much as it worked against the smaller sides, the big teams were going to thrash that midfield pairing.

Bold Tone

Nothing to do with Kos being stretchered off then i take it. Nor Monreal being burnt for pace by Navas. Not even the abomination of a Wilshere - Flamini centre midfield.

Patters

otfgoon wrote:
We no longer play with a no 10 and I certainly don't think we should change our formation for Ozil or any individual. Playing wide in the new formation means he doesn't really have to track back like he used to either.

Him in the false 9 role with Sanchez and Theo wide is interesting though.

Fully agree.

I wouldn't experiment with the free no.9 role right now, I think the Leicester game was another reminder as to the importance of having a physical presence in the team. That experiment is for when we have an intimidating midfield 3 who can back up the forwards.

I think Ozil's doing ok atm in a wide role. There's so much movement in the front 3 with players switching sides that I don't really think he has been restricted in any way. He looks to be eyeing more goals now, he's getting his goals and creating chances and that's probably best for what we need. It doesn't fit the narrative of Wenger suddenly developing a mental illness after 2005 but Wenger knows what he's doing with players like Ozil.

Klaus

ultimate_warrior wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Ramsey's monster form coincided with having Özil in front of him to create space too. No one called us defensively frail during those months.

Then we turned up at the Etihad stadium and got hit for 6. We were torn to shreds by City's midfield.

Correlation ≠ causation. He played on the wing in the 1-5 game against Liverpool, so I suppose that means he can't play wide either then. Is that it? Or does this argument only work when it supports a particular view?

Clrnc

Klaus wrote:
ultimate_warrior wrote:
Then we turned up at the Etihad stadium and got hit for 6. We were torn to shreds by City's midfield.

Correlation ≠ causation. He played on the wing in the 1-5 game against Liverpool, so I suppose that means he can't play wide either then. Is that it? Or does this argument only work when it supports a particular view?

Cazorla and Ox played on the wings... Ozil was central and got subbed off for Rosicky in the 2nd half IIRC.

flobaba

if Ozil was a Ninja turtle, he'd be Donatello.

jones

Klaus wrote:
I'm sure he played left. He replaced Reus out there who got injured and missed the tournament. That's also the only reason he played on the flank.

He often switched flanks with Müller and Götze. I just looked it up, he played the semi and the final on the left, the five games before on the right (in which he performed better I'd add). And I'd say the reason he played on the flank was more that Löw decided to go with a 4-3-3, which leaves only the flanks to Özil. I'm highly critical of Löw but it certainly wasn't the worst decision.

marv3llous

ultimatewarrior

Klaus wrote:
ultimate_warrior wrote:
Then we turned up at the Etihad stadium and got hit for 6. We were torn to shreds by City's midfield.

Correlation ≠ causation. He played on the wing in the 1-5 game against Liverpool, so I suppose that means he can't play wide either then. Is that it? Or does this argument only work when it supports a particular view?

No he didn't, he played centrally against Liverpool. Also that retort means nothing. The tie against Man City was lost in midfield, hell even Fernandinho scored. Ozil was nowhere to be seen. Go watch the Clasico's against Barcelona when Mourinho was in charge. Go and remind yourself how Ozil was MIA/AWOL in all of those games.

When you're sitting on the top of the league, you then turn up at the place of your main competitors and get flung for six. Questions need to be asked, an inquiry needs to be held, and investigation needs to start. Look, if it was only Wenger who played Ozil on the flank, then you guys have a point, but all of his past managers have done the same exact thing. I repeat, if Ozil was flawless in AM, none of his managers would have even contemplated moving him, but they ALL did. I trust the decision of several world renowned managers over some fans on a forum.

ludovicvanzis

Özil is a forward not a midfielder. That's why he needs to also score goals not just create.

So saying we lost the midfield because of Özil makes little sense. It's not his responsibility to win it.

Bold Tone

I repeat. How come Ramsey and Ozil, our attacking midfielders carry the can according to you.
Why do Wilshere and Flamini get a free pass?
What about the defenders who were directly involved in the 6 goals conceded?
The big one to me is losing Koscielny after 41 minutes.

ultimatewarrior

ludovic van zis wrote:
Özil is a forward not a midfielder. That's why he needs to also score goals not just create.

So saying we lost the midfield because of Özil makes little sense. It's not his responsibility to win it.

That's exactly why he's been shifted from a midfield three to an attacking three.

evoh

Simply it is either of Ozil of Cazorla playing through the middle for me.

Everything else is trying to shoehorn a player into a role where he isn't comfortable or able to deliver what we need .

Biggus

Bold Tone wrote:
Not enough for you i can understand but fuck all ?
You sure?

For the investment in him in transfer fee and wages, the return on the pitch has been negligible.

Bold Tone

Biggus wrote:
Bold Tone wrote:
Not enough for you i can understand but fuck all ?
You sure?

For the investment in him in transfer fee and wages, the return on the pitch has been negligible.

That's not true based [size=medium]on any measurement.[/size]

« Previous Page Next Page »