Mesut coming out of his shell?: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Mesut coming out of his shell?

Bold Tone

Chamakh says hi

ChiliPalmer

Claudius wrote:
You don't need to change / develop the best player in his position on the world. Wenger's having a laugh. And we are paying for it

I don't think he's having a laugh. People were complaining about our soft center last season, and most put it down to Özil's lack of desire to put in a shift defensively. Wenger has tried to come around it by shifting the midfield triangle and giving the DM more help with 2 hardworking CM's alongside him. In other words he's done what people wanted him to - he's made us tougher in midfield, while still keeping most of his creative players.

Özil is obviously much better through the middle, but he can still do a job outwide as good as 1-goal-a-season Chambo, or can't-pass-for-toffee Theo.

He was majestic in the first half last night. When he's on song there are few better players to watch.

Gazza M

i'd think about selling him and buying an actual left sided player. can't stomach watching him playing at 70% of his ability on the wing, and then getting shit on "for not putting in a shift".

wenger is an ass for moaning about how many players he has that can play CAM, when none of have proven themselves as world class in that role apart from 1 guy

Rex

And that's the guy he doesn't play there anymore.

Wait, I have a better idea; let's keep the guy who has proven he is world class in that role, sell the guy who plays there now but isn't good enough on the flank, AND buy a top class player for that wide role who is actually a wide player.

Alfonso

He has improved but that means going from being a 4/10 player to a 6.5/10 player.

Let's not be too easily pleased. A couple of assists against Leicester won't change my mind.

For example, he was dire v Spurs away despite his well taken goal.

He has to get out of his comfort zone in games. It seems like he only does the bare minimum.

The jury is still out.

innervisionscm

He was one of our better players against Spurs.

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD0QUdTyHC4

ed. Saw Klaus posted this in the matchday thread. Belongs here anyway though I guess.

Bold Tone

You are looking at the wrong thing. He is a shit player who needs to start tracking back to cover the fullbacks, clear headers from our box, defend corners, score goals, stop dribbling and start pointing and shouting randomly as well as kicking opposition players and getting sent off before he is considered good enough for us.

Klaus

My view on Özil is pretty simple: pretty much every time I've seen us play with him on the field since he arrived he's been a head taller than anyone else.

Now it doesn't always come off, and we don't really utilise him well for the most part, but he's the guy who'll carve out 110 goal chances in a league season. And that's the quantity I want. That's literally the only thing I care about with a player like him. That's three clear cut chances per game (since he came back last month he's probably averaging twice as much; there were at least half a dozen of them against Leicester, plus an assist and a half). In a sport where 1/10th of a second of extra time on the ball is worth 50 million he'll give you twice or thrice as much.

If you score from 10 of those 110 chances in a season then maybe your main problem lies elsewhere.

Bosscielny

Alfonso wrote:
He has improved but that means going from being a 4/10 player to a 6.5/10 player.

Let's not be too easily pleased. A couple of assists against Leicester won't change my mind.

For example, he was dire v Spurs away despite his well taken goal.

He has to get out of his comfort zone in games. It seems like he only does the bare minimum.

The jury is still out.

Everyone was shit against Spurs. Unfortunately two of three midfielders behind him were the two worst on the field, which meant Ozil's opportunities were about as limited as can be.

marv3llous

With Mesut its really about the end product and chances created. Is as easy aa that. Some people (especially in England) will probably never come to term with what he is, as he most likely will never become what they want him to be. You pay your Scottie Parkers to run around and kick people because that's what they can do and you pay your Mesut Özils to create chances because that's what he can do. And he does that. Nothing else in it really.

Daz

Of course Ozil should be viewed as a 'specialist' but that doesn't mean he can't be expected to compete for 50/50 balls. It's a pretty basic requirement of any player, regardless of position or pedigree IMO and a pretty important part of being a success in the EPL.

Clrnc

You can't have Ozil in the middle not defending and then have Ramsey bombing forward all the time without any discipline in his position.

It's either one or another.

You want Ozil to have a free role without the need to defend like how Arshavin was played for Russia and Zenit, then we need to have another solid DM alongside Coq.

ultimatewarrior

Clrnc wrote:
You can't have Ozil in the middle not defending and then have Ramsey bombing forward all the time without any discipline in his position.

It's either one or another.

You want Ozil to have a free role without the need to defend like how Arshavin was played for Russia and Zenit, then we need to have another solid DM alongside Coq.

Exactly this. I'm surprised people still can't see how Ozil and Ramsey's positioning impacts the defensive side of our game. It's so fucking obvious, it has happens in every game.

The idea that the number 10 in 2015 doesn't have to defend is just wrong, plain wrong. Mourinho, Low and Wenger all started using Ozil on the flank, once they realized Ozil is a coward and you have can't have him as part of the battle in midfield. Get with the times.

Rex

That's just not true though. Özil played about 90 percent of his games under Moron at 10, and he was voted Germany's best player 2 or 3 times playing in that same role.

I'd also argue that it would make a lot more sense to play Ramsey in midfield and Özil at 10 and just tell our FBs to be a lot more conservative in their attacking. We are a top class left winger short, but a player like Alexis doesn't need an overlapping FB. Chambo at his best doesn't either, but he is too inconsistent still, and that's why we need one more.

------------Welbeck
Reus--------Özil-------Alexis
-------Ramsey(sort of)

Let those players do the attacking - the rest of you fuckers stay the fuck back.

ultimatewarrior

innervisionscm wrote:
He was one of our better players against Spurs.

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD0QUdTyHC4

ed. Saw Klaus posted this in the matchday thread. Belongs here anyway though I guess.

Ozil's problem is all without the ball. We all know what he can do with it. It's better for the team that he plays on the flank, and it would be amazing if he could fulfill the runner creative wide goalscorer role. A Robert Pires if you will. I don't think Ozil has the goals in him, but he's already scored more than I would have thought.

------------Sanchez/Henry-----
Ozil/Pires---------------------Walcott/Ljungberg

That's what I would be seeing if I was Wenger when I looked down at my team. You don't play Giroud or Welbeck when you have those three available. Also, the absence of a Bergkamp role is also obvious. We don't play a 4-4-2 and neither does anybody else.

Bold Tone

Talking of without the ball, what do you make of Theo's 9 passes in 72 minutes?
Is he hiding on the pitch or do the other players not trust him?

ultimatewarrior

Rex wrote:
That's just not true though. Özil played about 90 percent of his games under Moron at 10, and he was voted Germany's best player 2 or 3 times playing in that same role.

I'd also argue that it would make a lot more sense to play Ramsey in midfield and Özil at 10 and just tell our FBs to be a lot more conservative in their attacking. We are a top class left winger short, but a player like Alexis doesn't need an overlapping FB. Chambo at his best doesn't either, but he is too inconsistent still, and that's why we need one more.

------------Welbeck
Reus--------Özil-------Alexis
-------Ramsey(sort of)

Let those players do the attacking - the rest of you fuckers stay the fuck back.

Yeah, just like Wenger played Ozil centrally for all of last season. Mourinho started using Ozil on the left in all of the bigger games, after he learnt many hard lessons. Mourinho played Ozil on the left against Borussia Dortmund in the 1st CL leg in 2013 for example, which ironically didn't work either. Low then did exactly the same when he used Ozil exclusively on the left for the last World Cup. Why would two people who know Ozil on a personal level, decide to shift him to the left, if he was flawless in midfield like some seem to think? He then signs for Arsenal, Wenger also gave Ozil that opportunity, we all saw the two sides of the German, the creative skilful genius and the pansy petulant, Wenger then drew the same conclusion. In cases like this, you just have to trust the people in the know.

Captain

Playing ozil at 10 saw us top the league for five months, not having him made us midtable.

Klaus

Ramsey's monster form coincided with having Özil in front of him to create space too. No one called us defensively frail during those months.

Rex

Will you two stop speaking sense, please? It is too confusing around here these days.

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