A piece in The Nation by a researcher who interviewed a group of ISIS fighters from the Middle East. A bit like that article on the banlieues, this one is worth a read for the closer detail.
http://www.thenation.com/article/what-i-discovered-from-interviewing-isis-prisoners/
Russians say its Isis that brought down the plane.
Pressure mounts now.
i don't get ISIS, why pick a fight with America, Europe, Russia and Iran?
Maybe they assume there won't ever be a united offensive against them.
"Work to expose the weakness of America’s centralised power by pushing it to abandon the media psychological war and the war by proxy until it fights directly.”
Ditto for France, the UK and other allies.There is a recruitment framework. The Grey Zone, a 10-page editorial in Isis’s online magazine Dabiq in early 2015, describes the twilight area occupied by most Muslims between good and evil, the caliphate and the infidel, which the “blessed operations of September 11” brought into relief. Quoting Bin Laden it said: “The world today is divided. Bush spoke the truth when he said, ‘Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists’, with the actual ‘terrorist’ being the western crusaders.” Now, it said, “the time had come for another event to … bring division to the world and destroy the grey zone”. The attacks in Paris were the latest instalment of this strategy, targeting Europe, as did the recent attacks in Turkey. There will be more, much more, to come.
It would appear that ISIS want US and Allied troops on the ground.
It does appear to me that not many truly understand ISIS, there seems to be no real consistency of educated opinion.
Dwelling on how they came to be and who's to blame, doesn't really move us close to understanding what they've become
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/15/terrorists-isis
Suspicious device found at the Germany v Holland game http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/17/germany-holland-friendly-suspicious-suitcase?CMP=twt_gu?CMP=twt_gu
It's moved on from that, the police in Hanover have closed a section of the city's central train station as another object has been discovered."
As someone on Redcafe pointed out, the security did a superb job of reacting: -
#MsportXtra @MsportExtra
From Hannover. Police advise citizens from Hannover to stay indoors. Reports suggest 3 planned attacks, dealt with by police.
@AFP
#BREAKING No explosives found in Hanover football scare: German regional minister
"Es hat keine Festnahmen zum gegenwärtigen Zeitpunkt gegeben, Sprengstoff ist ebenfalls bis zum aktuellen Zeitpunkt auch nicht gefunden worden."
No explosives found yet, in other words.
It's like we're in one of those shitty Tom Clancy novels.
@[deleted] and Rex:
I used to live in Brussels.
Still not funny.
There are 10,500 radicalised in France according to their Prime minister and Intelligence services.
Out of a total Muslim population of 6m, that's about 0.2%.
I suppose the difference is down to what people mean by 'radicalised' but at any rate it's significantly less than the 20% than was bandied about earlier in this thread.
There's actually quite a high figure given that it is france alone.
I guess that watch list would probably consist of a few hundred actual candidates along with every person fitting a basic demographic profile who attends a mosque where a "radical" imam speaks.
There's also a short list of two thousand or so for which some some have called for immediate internment without charges.
Immediate internment without charges sounds scary to me.
Bombing in Nigeria, evacuations in Hannover and Copenhagen, foiled plot in Paris' CBD.
The religion of peace strikes again.
You know the victims of the Nigeria bombing were Muslims, right?
How does that change his point?
They don't seem to be religious at all.
A baby girl in Guinea, who was the last known Ebola patient in a two-year West African epidemic, has recovered, health officials say.
Good news shouldn't be buried.
Massive respect for all of the doctors, nurses, healthcare workers, relatives and friends who nursed the patients.
Ray wrote:They don't seem to be religious at all.
Nope. But reading the comments and you can see how easily people would turn even that fact to fit their established mindset.
jones wrote:You know the victims of the Nigeria bombing were Muslims, right?
doesn't really counter his point. Muslims are the number one victims of Islamic terrorism. if some powerful Sunnis had their way the biggest Muslim genocide would take place in the form of eliminating Shiites.
Gurgen wrote:How does that change his point?
I'm really unsure how people can't see this. Irish said "the religion of peace strikes again"; if the religion is at fault for this and it actually told these "Muslims" to kill Muslims that would mean religiously endorsed suicide. Not even going to bother going into too much detail, with Daesh I can see at least why people are still debating the religious content of their fucked up doctrine; Boko Haram has literally fuck all to do with Islam. Do some research on them and their background, lagos (the poster) isn't exactly known as an apologetic of Islam and he's said as much several times on this board.
Meatwad wrote:if some powerful Sunnis had their way
But they don't. What's the point of proposing this hypothesis? The powerful people who have their way aren't Sunnis and the people getting killed there every day aren't just Shi'a but Sunnis (and Christians) as well.
not sure if this was posted. but damn, obama
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/17/republicans-congress-syrian-refugees-us-paris-attacks
“Isil seeks to exploit the idea that there’s war between Islam and the west, and when you see individuals in positions of responsibility suggesting Christians are more worthy of protection than Muslims are in a war-torn land, that feeds the Isil narrative. It’s counter-productive. And it needs to stop.
“And I would add, these are the same folks who suggested they’re so tough that just ‘talk to Putin’ or staring down Isil [will work] … but they are scared of widows and orphans coming into the United States of America as part of our tradition of compassion. At first they were too scared of the press being too tough on them in the debates. Now they are scared of three-year-old orphans. That doesn’t seem so tough to me.”
jones wrote:Meatwad wrote:if some powerful Sunnis had their way
But they don't. What's the point of proposing this hypothesis? The powerful people who have their way aren't Sunnis and the people getting killed there every day aren't just Shi'a but Sunnis (and Christians) as well.
Some time before 9/11, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, once the powerful Saudi ambassador in Washington and head of Saudi intelligence until a few months ago, had a revealing and ominous conversation with the head of the British Secret Intelligence Service, MI6, Sir Richard Dearlove. Prince Bandar told him: "The time is not far off in the Middle East, Richard, when it will be literally 'God help the Shia'. More than a billion Sunnis have simply had enough of them."
Bandar is in as much of a position to speak for more than a billion Sunnis as Daesh themselves. I'm not sure if you have the right idea of what Sunnis are, the Saudi government sure as shit isn't; that'd be like claiming Westboro Baptist Church goers are Christians.
Most Arab Sunnis despise Saudi Arabia far, far more than they do Iran or Shi'a people in general. Might come as a shock to some but most Muslims aren't brainless people who only live for their faith but actually follow the news and keep track of what's happening around them. Even if people didn't, the Saudi's racism towards anyone who's not from a Gulf state alone puts them up there with Israel and the US in terms of popularity.
Another bombing in Nigeria, this time with an 11 year old suicide bomber.
jones wrote:that'd be like claiming Westboro Baptist Church goers are Christians.
They are.
I've posted several polls on Muslims' illiberal attitudes in this thread, but the western world isn't much better. New poll from PEW yesterday. Wtf is up with Germany, Japan and Italy (Just realized they are the Axis powers. Probably just a coincidence..):
jones wrote:Bandar is in as much of a position to speak for more than a billion Sunnis as Daesh themselves. I'm not sure if you have the right idea of what Sunnis are, the Saudi government sure as shit isn't; that'd be like claiming Westboro Baptist Church goers are Christians.
Most Arab Sunnis despise Saudi Arabia far, far more than they do Iran or Shi'a people in general. Might come as a shock to some but most Muslims aren't brainless people who only live for their faith but actually follow the news and keep track of what's happening around them. Even if people didn't, the Saudi's racism towards anyone who's not from a Gulf state alone puts them up there with Israel and the US in terms of popularity.
saudi arabia is the biggest benefactor of muslims around the world. they use their money to build mosques and spread wahhabism. and yes, westboro baptists are christians, but they have no influence. if they had billions of dollars available to them to buy influence there would be more wesboroism craziness in the christian world, but they don't and they just crash funerals.
y va marquer wrote:
what a nice looking town.
jones wrote:Gurgen wrote:How does that change his point?
I'm really unsure how people can't see this. Irish said "the religion of peace strikes again"; if the religion is at fault for this and it actually told these "Muslims" to kill Muslims that would mean religiously endorsed suicide. Not even going to bother going into too much detail, with Daesh I can see at least why people are still debating the religious content of their fucked up doctrine; Boko Haram has literally fuck all to do with Islam. Do some research on them and their background, lagos (the poster) isn't exactly known as an apologetic of Islam and he's said as much several times on this board.
In their view the people they are killing are not true Muslims and in their view their religion told them to do exactly that - I fail to see your point really. Boko Haram/IS are Islamic sects, just like the Jesuits are a Catholic sect. They call themselves Muslims and base their actions on their religious beliefs. Just because you (and thankfully most people) disagree with that, doesn't make any difference. Your perception of them is no different from their perception of you. Same goes for the Westboro Baptist Church. Of course they are Christians. You do not get to decide who belongs to a certain religion or not, people do that for themselves. Claiming that people who do bad things in the name of religion are not "true Muslims" or "true Christians" or whatever doesn't solve anything. The religion itself is part of the explanation for why they do this, if all religious texts said believers should only give other people hugs and kisses, there would be less of a problem.
That line of thinking doesn't work though because you just end up putting a blanket over various groups with different beliefs. I'm guessing it's not ISIS and Boko Haram who are claiming Islam is the religion of peace, yet their actions are used to mock those who do make the claim and those who do make the claim don't consider ISIS, Boko Haram and that sort of violence to be a part of their religion and beliefs.
Given what's at stake and the stated goals of IS, better to avoid reductive thinking that equates Islam with terrorism. The slightest inquiry into history and present events proves the folly of thinking this way. IS won't be limited or ultimately defeated without Islamic allies.
otfgoon wrote:That line of thinking doesn't work though because you just end up putting a blanket over various groups with different beliefs. I'm guessing it's not ISIS and Boko Haram who are claiming Islam is the religion of peace, yet their actions are used to mock those who do make the claim and those who do make the claim don't consider ISIS, Boko Haram and that sort of violence to be a part of their religion and beliefs.
It's kind of a fact of life that major religions have lots of different denominations, so you are always "putting a blanket over various groups with different beliefs". Also the claim that any of the three major monotheistic religions is a religion of peace is laughable and should be mocked as much as possible.
I'm sorry but I just don't see how you can dismiss categorising people with fundamentally differing ideas under the same banner as simply a 'fact of life'.
The people who make those statement's (however ludicrous it may be) are not death, blind and stupid, I'm guessing their acutely aware of the violence going on around them carried out in the name of their religion, however they obviously wish to express that they have a very different set of ideas.
