Former Arsenal Players Thread: Page 122 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Former Arsenal Players Thread

Gazza M

Big Willie yeah. might be a generational thing. for a few posters, the cesc era was their first love when it came to arsenal so there's more fondness there. i think he's a rat who forced his way to his 'dream club' then bailed when the going to got tough to go win titles for jose

Big Willie

Burnwinter I never minded Cesc all that much, he was a bit treacherous but to me it wasn't at Van Persie levels.

Van Perise I have an extreme hate for. Way mlre than Fabregas or Cole. My hatred towards him is on another level.

Burnwinter I do remember it being claimed he had faked a leg injury to avoid playing in one match during the "Barca DNA" period prior to his departure, but I don't recall that being verified.

May not have been verified but I remember him clearly being "unfit" to play in our preseason games back then whilst Nasri did even though he was also moving that summer. If that was it I probably wouldn't have had much of an issue, but a few days after the game he was supposedly injured for, he signed for Barca and a few days later was playing in their Super Cup game from the start.

Strike or not, he clearly did not want to play or risk injury before his move to fullfil his Barca DNA. He did a lot for the club during his time here but yeah, screw him. Still annoying the way he forced us to sell to Barca and only Barca despite having many years left on his contract, as well as the constant allowing those same Barca players to regularly disrepect us in the media and in their games (putting a Barca shirt in him etc).

Gazza M yeah. might be a generational thing. for a few posters, the cesc era was their first love when it came to arsenal so there's more fondness there. i think he's a rat who forced his way to his 'dream club' then bailed when the going to got tough to go win titles for jose

It may be but @Sicario2 claims to be a fan since the early 90s so that can't apply to him. I loved Fabregas when he was here. He was the first wonderkid we had I when the term wonderkid seemed relevant to me as he joined Arsenal when he and I were both 16. He was the first person in football I considered really young. Young players before that like Aliadiere, Anelka etc were all quite a bit older than me so never considered them young like that.

My issue with him isn't that he left. As @flobaba said, Thierry left us for Barca, Reyes left us for Real, Vieira left us for Juve. I don't hate any of them. It's the way you leave that can bring fans to hate you. Anyways, to cut a long story short, fuck Fabregas. A snake with a better PR team than other snakes.

Burnwinter

I never minded Cesc all that much, he was a bit treacherous but to me it wasn't at Van Persie levels.

I do remember it being claimed he had faked a leg injury to avoid playing in one match during the "Barca DNA" period prior to his departure, but I don't recall that being verified.

There was also that insulting incident with the shirt, Pique and Puyol during the World Cup.

Cesc had an intense relationship with Wenger, almost substitute father areas, and I reckon that made his time at Arsenal additionally odd. I also reckon Cesc is a fraction thick myself, but I'm happy to let the bet with @Sicario2 decide that …

SimplyThePest

flobaba My best mate played golf with Wrighty (I have photos 😃) and Wrighty told him that apparently, one of the conditions of the loan(s) was that Wenger stayed on as manager.

Thinking back, there weren't/aren't too many managers that could have done what Wenger did with what he had available for a while there.

Mirth

SimplyThePest most people break up Wenger’s time into 2 parts.

I think there were 3.

The Highbury years - when Wenger’s ideas were fresh and new
The early Emirates years - when Wenger navigated the club through some off field challenges
The post 2015 years - when Wenger fully lost his edge and ideas.

He should have stepped down after the winning the cup final v Villa. Certainly after Leicester won the league.

SimplyThePest

Mirth I'd have to agree with you.

Burnwinter

The "sustainable model" of the Gazidis period was, with the benefit of hindsight, merely KSE strategically under-investing to clear Dein, Usmanov and Red and White Holdings off their last 30% with the stock price still depressed.

I think it's a shame Wenger's ability was the fig leaf for those wasted years of billionaire manoeuvring but if this were Shakespeare, the villain would be Dein.

Once I figured this narrative out I used to resent Arsène for being "in cahoots", but seeing what's happened elsewhere and thinking through the ineffable business factors, we were lucky to have him. And we're also lucky to have had KSE to hold out Usmanov. Could've been ugly if we'd had a major collapse in results while the power struggle was on, then had assets partly frozen due to Magnitsky action against our owner.

Sicario2

Big Willie Cesc did care for the club whilst he was here. Just look at his passionate celebrations when he scored v the likes of Spurs, Man Utd and of course the most iconic one against Milan away.

Cesc is not from hale end, he is a Barca boy, of course he was always going to go back. The way he left could be better but he was still very young and prob ill advised. I think his heart was in the right place and he’s a good guy - he didn’t move directly to a rival like that cunt RvP.

Cesc will one day manage Arsenal, I’m sure of it.

RocktheCasbah

Big Willie Still annoying the way he forced us to sell to Barca and only Barca despite having many years left on his contract,

I understand this point of view, but just playing devil's advocate here... We did make £35m on a player we basically nicked from Barcelona's academy for buttons. So you could argue that Barcelona lowballing us was merely them returning the favour.

What really fucked me off about the whole thing was they spent 3 years tapping up a player they clearly didn't need at that time, they just didn't want us to have him.

Big Willie

RocktheCasbah I understand this point of view, but just playing devil's advocate here... We did make £35m on a player we basically nicked from Barcelona's academy for buttons. So you could argue that Barcelona lowballing us was merely them returning the favour.

That's true. Still doesn't mean I can't be upset to have been put in a position where the club sells to Barca and only Barca by Fabregas, meaning they were able to get him for so cheap, even if is a 35m profit on a player we got for free. It's annoying but that coupled with the strike, as well as the years of

RocktheCasbah What really fucked me off about the whole thing was they spent 3 years tapping up a player they clearly didn't need at that time, they just didn't want us to have him.

Agreed, I did mention that and put some of that blame on Fabregas for effectively enabling it and not stopping it from happening, either privately or publicly.

Big Willie Still annoying the way he forced us to sell to Barca and only Barca despite having many years left on his contract, as well as the constant allowing those same Barca players to regularly disrepect us in the media and in their games (putting a Barca shirt in him etc)

Anyways maybe my disdain for him is irrational given I did say earlier I don't blame him for picking his own career of Arsenal (I'd pick my own career ambitions over my employers if I had to choose). But then again this is the life of a football fan, sometimes we are irrational in our likes and disliked and no matter how much we try to avoid biases, we're still going to have some of that.

Big Willie

Sicario2 Cesc did care for the club whilst he was here. Just look at his passionate celebrations when he scored v the likes of Spurs, Man Utd and of course the most iconic one against Milan away.

I said as much, no?

Sicario2 The way he left could be better but he was still very young and prob ill advised. I think his heart was in the right place and he’s a good guy - he didn’t move directly to a rival like that cunt RvP.

This is exactly what I said, though I put the blame on him and not him being "ill advised", which even if he was, he's responsible for putting those people in a position to advise him.

Sicario2 I think his heart was in the right place and he’s a good guy

Here I disagree, Fabregas' heart was not in the right place when it came to us. Maybe for Barca it was because he's going back to them, getting them a good deal on a player with 5 or so years left on his contract that he just signed a year or so earlier.

I'm not going to talk about whether he's a good guy or not because that's his personal character and I'm not going to say he is a terrible person because he left us (no matter how) similarly to van Persie. They both just chose to do what's best for them with no regard for the club, which is fair enough and doesn't mean they are inherently good or bad as people. It also doesn't mean I can't hate on them from an Arsenal fan perspective.

Sicario2 he didn’t move directly to a rival like that cunt RvP.

Agreed, though I did already say van Persie for me is much, much worse., regardless of who he moved to. It's how hr engineered it all and everything since. Fuck van persie. Matter of fact doesn't even deserve a capital letter on the P.

RocktheCasbah

Big Willie oh, I think to be a football fan is to be completely irrational most of the time. Look at our friend Sicario 😁.

Fwiw, I think any and all interpretations of the Cesc situation totally valid. I can't be mad at someone who I watched grow into one of the best centre mids on the planet wanting to leave us and go and play for his hometown club. Even if I didn't love the way he left.

However, I've spent enough time talking to James about it, years really, to understand my point of view isn't the only one and so, if people feel let down by what he did and how he did it, well then that's fine too. And if you feel nothing but disdain for him, that's also fine. You will not hear any sermonising from me on the subject... anymore.

I just wish Arsene had given him a team worthy of his talents, cos I do think he loved us. He just loved Barcelona, and specifically that version of Barcelona, a little more.

Dom

Sicario2

I'm not denying he was an important player for us back in the day and he was our best for a while, but I am calling him a two-faced wanker for his behaviour on the pitch and his lying after leaving the club. His head was in the clouds in 2010/2011 and it cost us in matches. If we start chronologically:

In his final season the handball against Spurs at home triggered their comeback and we went on to lose the game.
The knockout game against Barcelona in 2011. His idiotic back heel just outside his own box gifted Messi a goal and started Barcelona's comeback after they had looked out of ideas against our low block.
Allegedly went on strike to force a move. Name me another Arsenal captain who did this. He was going to get his transfer. Going on strike likely forced Arsenal to settle for £10m - £15m less.
He has said he regretted leaving Arsenal. Who falls for this guff? His real regret is he wasn't good enough for his dream club and became disliked by the Barcelona fans.
He never played "60 games a season" for Arsenal as he says. Not as an average over multiple ones and not in any single one. In his last three seasons he was absent for either a third or a quarter of each season. At Barcelona and Chelsea his long-term muscle injuries were less frequent. I'm accusing him of not doing enough to stay in peak physical condition to avoid these injuries. In his last 1.5 years at Arsenal he wasn't as lean as he should've been and was effectively a nonentity in the second of half of seasons.

JazzG

Dom Allegedly went on strike to force a move. Name me another Arsenal captain who did this. He was going to get his transfer. Going on strike likely forced Arsenal to settle for £10m - £15m less.

That is what did me, I don't begrudge him leaving. Lets be honest here the club was a joke and had no ambition or desire to push themselves, we were content with Top 4 and prepared to do the bare minimum for that. Why would any top player want to spend their best years with us?

The way he left and the disrespect that he and the Barca players and board showed really got under my skin. Barca strongly encourage players to pull this shit to force a move at a lower price and he went along with it. Even though he was a Barca boy this club took a chance on him and Wenger showed faith where very few would for someone that young.

Burnwinter

Always felt the season where Wenger converted Cesc to an SS and told him to win us all the matches by himself (another outcome of what an annoying unit Van Persie was) was what broke him at Arsenal.

Cesc was loyal to Wenger and not Arsenal in any case, as with many of our players back then.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Burnwinter yes. I hated Fabregas as an SS. Didn't have the body type for that, not bendy or nimble enough and the team lost structure and control.

Dom

Burnwinter

This takes me back to an argument I had with a guy at the Emirates back in 2011. He was sitting next to me complaining about Wenger ruining Fabregas because of the constant injuries. I remember telling him it doesn't help that Fabregas is a fat fuck.

I was mentioning to whoever listened back then about him not taking conditioning serious enough and that he looked overweight.

This is what he looked like in 2010 and 2011. Physique of a 5'8" Tekken streamer.

Qwiss

Sicario2 Integrity? He made one mistake going to Monaco Grand Prix.

No he signed a contract and then went on strike to get out of it. Wore another teams jersey in public. Made it impossible to get market value for him by only accepting Barca. He had zero integrity.

Sicario2 If we had a Cesc in this current team we would have won a title by now.

He won FA Cup with us and was largely carried by our greats. He was a top player but he had his own issues and stupidity that cost us at times too. He proved that he couldn't carry a team to a title, he needed to be carried by better players.

Sicario2

Qwiss didn’t he win a title with Chelsea being a key component of the team? His relationship and assists for Diego Costa was the main reason they won the title in 2014/2015.

Gurgen

He was an arrogant wanker which was underlined by the fact that at some point he felt the need to have his own TV show. At that stage you knew his head had gone. Great player in his own way, but replacing Vieira with Cesc was the biggest mistake of Wenger's career.

The fact that he has a stake in Como but is going to manage another team in the same league speaks volumes.

Sicario2

Dom he didn’t need to be a men’s health magazine model to be effective for us. His game wasn’t about physicality but his football brain. His first yard of pace was in his head, constantly scanning and having one of the best eyes for a pass I’ve ever seen.

He also wasn’t a pussy, got stuck into players when needed, remember he was the one that threw the pizza at Fergie, he was the one that started that ruck v Chelsea in 2007 league cup final.

Burnwinter

Dom Physique of a 5'8" Tekken streamer.

Hey mate, don't talk about J.O.P. that way.

Fabregas was having to pretty much single-handedly win us matches back then, can't say I've got it in me to question his preparation or his contribution to our football. That was on Wenger and the owners for mine.

From memory 10–11 was the season we were winning in January and failed yet again to strengthen. That's when I was done with the concept of Wenger.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Dom fat fuck he became indeed.

To be honest Wenger let his players get away with shitty physiques later on. Many of them put on too much muscle/bulk and weren't lean or springy enough.

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