Francis Coquelin, one off or genuine midfield option for us this season?: Page 12 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Francis Coquelin, one off or genuine midfield option for us this season?

yuv

Captain wrote:
yuv wrote:
What we first need to see that the way he played the last two games is a level that really reflects him.
I need a few more games before I'm confident.

It's not just two games, he's been good from the moment he first started a game.

He was in Charlton just a few weeks ago. And he wasn't the first name on the team sheet. Something's happening on the coq front, it's not that they brought him back from there and he just continued playing as he did in the championship.

And it's a good thing something's happening. We did see talent a while ago, but little came out of it. what we're seeing now is new - it's him playing the part. funny to say it's not.

And as I said, the interesting part now is can he keep it up. If he can - it's a big thing for us. It's where we are at our worst.

yuv

GaelForce wrote:
Anzac wrote:
Would he be considered a regular starter season 2015-16?

We can do better. Arteta will still (rightfully) be first choice if he gets back to fitness this season too.

Probably Arteta will start at least some games. Serious question: (with the benefit of hindsight) would you have played Arteta at City?
I don't think I would. What coq provided that day was[size=medium] [/size]needed more than anything Art can give us (in such a game).

Bold Tone

@Gael
You sure?
Guess whose injury record this is and note the type of injury, dates and frequency.

Jan 15, 2015 Apr 15, 2015, Old age-90 days & counting, 14 Games missed
Nov 26, 2014 Jan 14, 2015, Calf Problems-49 days, 12 Games missed
Nov 6, 2014 Nov 20, 2014, Thigh Muscle Strain-14 days, 1 Game missed
Sep 27, 2014 Oct 6, 2014, Calf Problems-9 days, 3 Games missed
Aug 20, 2014 Sep 10, 2014, Malleolar injury-21 days, 3 Games missed
Aug 10, 2013 Sep 20, 2013,Hamstring Injury-41 days, 7 Games missed
Jan 10, 2013 Feb 1, 2013, Calf Injury-22 days, 6 Games missed.

innervisionscm

yuv wrote:
GaelForce wrote:
We can do better. Arteta will still (rightfully) be first choice if he gets back to fitness this season too.

Probably Arteta will start at least some games. Serious question: (with the benefit of hindsight) would you have played Arteta at City?
I don't think I would. What coq provided that day was[size=medium] [/size]needed more than anything Art can give us (in such a game).

Yeah, Arteta's a better player. What exactly does Coquelin do that Arteta doesn't? Besides play with a more aggressive style?

QuincyAbeyie

He's more mobile, and I believe we might need that aggressive style. Though of course I agree that Arteta is a better player.

Rex

If Coquelin is a player, then he'll like his chances and choose to stay at a big club rather than moving to a club a tier or two down. To make it at the top level you need to have that sort of belief in yourself I reckon.

Bold Tone

@innersupervision
As Quincy says, he can run.
He is younger, fitter and quicker.
He also knows how to tackle, cover fullbacks and close down passing lanes.
He challenges the opposition midfielders winning most of his duels, intercepts their runners and most importantly is available every week.
Now you go ahead and list what Arteta does that Coquelin cant.

GaelForce

Bold Tone wrote:
@Gael
You sure?
Guess whose injury record this is and note the type of injury, dates and frequency.

Jan 15, 2015 Apr 15, 2015, Old age-90 days & counting, 14 Games missed
Nov 26, 2014 Jan 14, 2015, Calf Problems-49 days, 12 Games missed
Nov 6, 2014 Nov 20, 2014, Thigh Muscle Strain-14 days, 1 Game missed
Sep 27, 2014 Oct 6, 2014, Calf Problems-9 days, 3 Games missed
Aug 20, 2014 Sep 10, 2014, Malleolar injury-21 days, 3 Games missed
Aug 10, 2013 Sep 20, 2013,Hamstring Injury-41 days, 7 Games missed
Jan 10, 2013 Feb 1, 2013, Calf Injury-22 days, 6 Games missed.

I'm not saying Arteta shouldn't be replaced. He's just clearly, miles better than Coquelin.

Those two + new signing in the summer would be ideal.

Also, in reply to your last post, Arteta's the much better tackler. Coquelin's more aggressive, and fitting a (desperate) need in the side at the moment... but that's about it. I'll be amazed if opinions of him are this high at the end of the season.

Bold Tone

I'm not saying you are 100% wrong.
The bar i set for Coq is extremely low.
Any half-decent CM can meet it so we definitely could do better.
It's just that Wenger hasn't managed to do it and Arteta got the role as we didn't have anyone else to do it.
Arteta has always been a favourite player of mine and i am loathe to denigrate him.
My issue is "that" Arteta is gone.
We are left with a shell who gets injured the moment he collides with opposition players. This wouldn't be so bad as you can run these off but a cursory look at his injury history will show a recurrence of muscle injuries meaning he can no longer pass his MOT.

GaelForce

You're right really, but I still think he's a quality player on his day.

Absolutely dominated Rooney, and the entire midfield when we played United at the Emirates this season... What a stupid match.

yuv

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
He's more mobile, and I believe we might need that aggressive style. Though of course I agree that Arteta is a better player.

Well put.

It is basically the difference between a deep lying midfielder and a defensive midfielder. Arteta plays the deep role very well, and is miles better at spreading play and keeping the machine ticking than Coq is (or will ever be, IMO). But he's still not a DM, and at times, particularly against top opposition, where we fail miserably for years now, a DM is just what we need. We all saw Coq vs City. I still think if we had Art there in his place, we wouldn't have fared better. Probably much worse.

Klaus

Rex wrote:
If Coquelin is a player, then he'll like his chances and choose to stay at a big club rather than moving to a club a tier or two down. To make it at the top level you need to have that sort of belief in yourself I reckon.

Having belief in yourself does not equate having belief that the manager will give you what you perceive to be a fair chance.

Klaus

yuv wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
He's more mobile, and I believe we might need that aggressive style. Though of course I agree that Arteta is a better player.

Well put.

It is basically the difference between a deep lying midfielder and a defensive midfielder. Arteta plays the deep role very well, and is miles better at spreading play and keeping the machine ticking than Coq is (or will ever be, IMO). But he's still not a DM, and at times, particularly against top opposition, where we fail miserably for years now, a DM is just what we need. We all saw Coq vs City. I still think if we had Art there in his place, we wouldn't have fared better. Probably much worse.

I think that's nonsense personally. Coquelin was still on the field during that ten-minute spell in the second half when we started to play like we usually do by committing too many players forward and opening ourselves up. City absolutely tore us to pieces during those minutes. Jovetic and Agüero missing open goal was the only thing that stopped us from throwing the game there and then.

The shape of the team was different against City, and that's what made us look more defensively sound. You can pause the game at any given minute in the first half and the distance between the deepest defender and the furthermost forward won't be more than 15-20 meters. That's how you do it. You keep the team short, eliminate space between the lines and press hard.

goon

He was pretty crucial in those 10 mins though, at least for a couple of those counters, there was one at the end of the second half too. His pace allows us to cope a little better.

innervisionscm

Klaus wrote:
Rex wrote:
If Coquelin is a player, then he'll like his chances and choose to stay at a big club rather than moving to a club a tier or two down. To make it at the top level you need to have that sort of belief in yourself I reckon.

Having belief in yourself does not equate having belief that the manager will give you what you perceive to be a fair chance.

How has he been treated unfairly here? When he made appearances for us in previous seasons he looked terrible.

Meatwad

no he didn't.

Klaus

innervisionscm wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Having belief in yourself does not equate having belief that the manager will give you what you perceive to be a fair chance.

How has he been treated unfairly here? When he made appearances for us in previous seasons he looked terrible.

I don't think he's been treated unfairly. I was just making the point that having belief in yourself does not equate having belief in getting an opportunity to play.

Clrnc

innervisionscm wrote:
When he made appearances for us in previous seasons he looked terrible.

That's absolute nonsense.

Jed

I remember him pocketing Modrić at White Hart Lane in 2011-2012.

est

He also dominated against Man City in the League Cup.

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