The race for... 4th - 2014/2015 edition: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The race for... 4th - 2014/2015 edition

Gazza M

if the panic buy is a quality defensive one, i'm all for it

Rex

As I've said all along - we'll get third pretty comfortably. Take that to the bank.

Alfonso

Southampton will be lucky to finish in the top 7.

We will finish in the top 4, comfortably.

Biggus

I don't care if we get 4th or not- In fact if you were to offer me 17th and Turnip out I'd snap your hand off.

invisibleman18

What actually is the point of 4th anyway? So we can get embarrassed by Bayern again?

Biggus

If you offered me 18th and him gone I'd have to think about it.

QuincyAbeyie

invisibleman18 wrote:
What actually is the point of 4th anyway? So we can get embarrassed by Bayern again?

Money + incoming players want to be playing in CL. Thought this was common knowledge. By your logic, only Real Madrid should bother trying to get into CL. Bayern would just be embarassed by Real, Barca by Bayern.

invisibleman18

Except they don't get tend to get embarrassed by each other in the same way we do do they? Anyway, was just knee jerk mate, of course I understand the reasons we aim for it. Just finding it hard to get excited about scrapping for 4th again knowing full well what always end up happening.

I do think not being able to sign anyone decent without CL is a bit of a myth though. United seem to have managed to sign some big players.

Bold Tone

I admire the optimism in you guys but watching the players' performances this season worries me greatly as they are not a team and will not be surprised if we fail to make top 4 this season.
It's clearly all on Wenger as, even with one of the best players in the league, we are just

Say what you like about last season, when we looked like a rabble between November and April, we were a team with a solid defence and a coherent midfield at the beginning and business end of that season.

ultimatewarrior

That defence has been torn apart, hence the downturn in results. Losing Sagna was big, losing Debuchy was bigger, losing Koscielny was the final nail.

MistaT

That's too true utlimate, but somewhere along that path Wenger and the players should have properly reacted by playing a more conservative/defense first approach. We appear to have gone the opposite and think that if we score more and prettier goals all will be forgiven.

Biggus

But they couldn't T, how could a policy of conscious and continual marginalisation and neglect of the defensive side of the game be reversed in a few weeks?

Meatwad

Biggus wrote:
If you offered me 18th and him gone I'd have to think about it.

Anzac

Meatwad

invisibleman18 wrote:
Except they don't get tend to get embarrassed by each other in the same way we do do they? Anyway, was just knee jerk mate, of course I understand the reasons we aim for it. Just finding it hard to get excited about scrapping for 4th again knowing full well what always end up happening.

I do think not being able to sign anyone decent without CL is a bit of a myth though. United seem to have managed to sign some big players.

how do we get embarrassed in ways that they don't? by being eliminated at basically the same stage every year? that's not embarrassing.

and united isn't looking like the best example right now either. maybe their signings weren't the right ones as well. even with the same money united couldn't sign the players chelsea did.

invisibleman18

By getting battered in the first leg every year and being effectively already out before the 2nd. The first legs against the likes of Bayern and Milan in recent seasons haven't been embarrassing?

MistaT

Biggus wrote:
But they couldn't T, how could a policy of conscious and continual marginalisation and neglect of the defensive side of the game be reversed in a few weeks?

I'm sitting here trying to detail what changes could be made, and the best I can come up with is starting Flamteta, and moving Chambers to CB. Not sure that solves fuck all and so your point, shit....everyone's point, remains that we were criminally under prepared for this season.

Wenger has been dreaming of a Ramsey/Wilshere/Ozil midfield for a year plus now with no understanding of how far removed that is from what this team needs.

Meatwad

invisibleman18 wrote:
By getting battered in the first leg every year and being effectively already out before the 2nd. The first legs against the likes of Bayern and Milan in recent seasons haven't been embarrassing?

in ways they don't? see how bayern went out last season. see how real madrid and barca went out the season before last. anyway the ties are 2 legged affairs.

ultimatewarrior

Anzac wrote:

Wenger failed at step 1, player recruitment. Every supposed problem is a consequence of that. I think there are two ultimate issues which far outweigh any other.

Youth
Injuries.

We have over 10 players in the squad who are under 24 years old. Go have a look at Chelsea, Bayern or any other top clubs squads don't have half as many under that age. As a result, we as a team continuously pay for inexperience. Constantly, on a weekly basis. Chambers is the most recent example.

We seem to introduce young players, almost for the sake of youth, as opposed to bringing in special talents who are able to perform beyond their age. Even then, only one or two are worthwhile, but almost half our squad is below the age limit. There's no way Fergie's Fledglings would have won the title in today's era, that's for sure.

Injuries is well, self explanatory.

Anzac

ultimate_warrior wrote:
Anzac wrote:

Wenger failed at step 1, player recruitment. Every supposed problem is a consequence of that. I think there are two ultimate issues which far outweigh any other.

Youth

Injuries.

We have over 10 players in the squad who are under 24 years old. Go have a look at Chelsea, Bayern or any other top clubs squads don't have half as many under that age. As a result, we as a team continuously pay for inexperience. Constantly, on a weekly basis. Chambers is the most recent example.

We seem to introduce young players, almost for the sake of youth, as opposed to bringing in special talents who are able to perform beyond their age. Even then, only one or two are worthwhile, but almost half our squad is below the age limit. There's no way Fergie's Fledglings would have won the title in today's era, that's for sure.

Injuries is well, self explanatory.

Agreed re Youth as a major issue/impact.
AW's methodology is to develop players via game time , particularly in regards to development of 'player intelligence' for the players to learn via experience. When doing so with youth the problem is compounded because not only are they developing intelligence, they are still developing their game and physical ability.
Further to that the rest of the squad are based around a small number of exceptional players, and the rest to compliment the development players.

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