The race for... 4th - 2014/2015 edition: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The race for... 4th - 2014/2015 edition

Qwiss

invisibleman18 wrote:
Except they don't get tend to get embarrassed by each other in the same way we do do they? Anyway, was just knee jerk mate, of course I understand the reasons we aim for it. Just finding it hard to get excited about scrapping for 4th again knowing full well what always end up happening.

I do think not being able to sign anyone decent without CL is a bit of a myth though. United seem to have managed to sign some big players.

We don't get embarrassed in the CL. We lose, often gallantly.

United are a prime example of how hard it is to get players when you fall out of the CL. 3 years ago those players would have been jumping at the chance to join United. Now it takes wages and transfer fees far beyond the actual worth of who they're buying. You can be sure Sanchez wouldn't have joined us without our guarantee of CL football.

JazzG

qs! wrote:
United are a prime example of how hard it is to get players when you fall out of the CL. 3 years ago those players would have been jumping at the chance to join United. Now it takes wages and transfer fees far beyond the actual worth of who they're buying. You can be sure Sanchez wouldn't have joined us without our guarantee of CL football.

Exactly, the reason they got some top players is because they paid through the roof for transfer fees and wages. They have a huge turnover so could afford to do so. If they don't make the CL this season they'll find it even tougher next summer. Sanchez chose us over Liverpool because they sold their best player and have been out of the CL for years. While we aren't close to winning it we are still there every season and that counts for a lot.

Looch

So long as Sanchez stays fit and in form then I'm sure we'll get 4th. Sometimes it really is a case of relying on your best player. Arshavin did it for us. Van Persie did it for us. Suarez elevated Liverpool to second. Hopefully this will be something similar.

Biggus

Anzac wrote:
ultimate_warrior wrote:
Wenger failed at step 1, player recruitment. Every supposed problem is a consequence of that. I think there are two ultimate issues which far outweigh any other.

Youth

Injuries.

We have over 10 players in the squad who are under 24 years old. Go have a look at Chelsea, Bayern or any other top clubs squads don't have half as many under that age. As a result, we as a team continuously pay for inexperience. Constantly, on a weekly basis. Chambers is the most recent example.

We seem to introduce young players, almost for the sake of youth, as opposed to bringing in special talents who are able to perform beyond their age. Even then, only one or two are worthwhile, but almost half our squad is below the age limit. There's no way Fergie's Fledglings would have won the title in today's era, that's for sure.

Injuries is well, self explanatory.

Agreed re Youth as a major issue/impact.
AW's methodology is to develop players via game time , particularly in regards to development of 'player intelligence' for the players to learn via experience. When doing so with youth the problem is compounded because not only are they developing intelligence, they are still developing their game and physical ability.
Further to that the rest of the squad are based around a small number of exceptional players, and the rest to compliment the development players.

But to what end is Wenger's obscession with his youth project?
It's not to build a team that will grow up together and become a solid unit for years, things don't work like that anymore players move on more quickly as soon as they see us going nowhere.
So it must just be for money, Wenger has made this club a footballer factory which produces fine players for other teams, not to produce trophies for us fans.

Rex

Apart from Chambers we haven't bought any kids for the first team for some time.

Biggus

You mean he hasn't bought any kids that were good enough and we were desperate enough to play in the first team for a while.
Ramsey Wilshere and Ox all took time before they justified their inclusion.

MistaT

Add Theo, Gibbs and of course Sanogo as players who got first team minutes when they were clearly not ready.

Bold Tone

Harsh on Gibbs who has been good enough from the start.

Biggus

MistaT wrote:
Add Theo, Gibbs and of course Sanogo as players who got first team minutes when they were clearly not ready.

Of course T but I had to stop before my fingers got tired.

Rex

Biggus wrote:
You mean he hasn't bought any kids that were good enough and we were desperate enough to play in the first team for a while.
Ramsey Wilshere and Ox all took time before they justified their inclusion.

Heh, I did say 'for some time', didn't I? None of those players were recently bought, as you well know. There has been a clear shift in the last couple of years when it comes to the players we buy, and that is clear for anyone to see if you take a look at the players we have bought in the last 3 years or so.

Rex

We should still buy players like Chambers though IMO; buying kids who look top talents is never wrong. Ideally, Chambers this season should not be playing as many games as he will have done by the end of the season. He is one spot too close to the first XI really.

MistaT

Bold Tone wrote:
Harsh on Gibbs who has been good enough from the start.

To be fair he was alright at the start but has done little to develop from there.

Think he's as average as it gets in our squad.

Rex

There are currently few, if any, better LBs in the PL IMO. Filipe Luiz would be one based on last season, but he hasn't played much.

MistaT

Speaks more to the general state of fullbacks than it does to Gibbs' quality.

What exactly does Gibbs do well? When was the last time you felt he had a strong game?

Rex

He has had several strong games on the bounce IMO. We are certainly not a shambles defensively because of him! He is the only one in that back 4 who consistently shuts his opposite number out, and he has also added both goals and assists to his game lately.

flobaba

Gibbs is an average full back Rex.

I'm surprised at how highly you rate him.

Rex

He rarely gets done 1v1, he has improved his positioning a whole heap, and he now also contributes in tangible ways to our attacking play. That's what I see, and I rate that.

invisibleman18

Agreed, I like him a lot too. He's good a big chance of taking the England spot from Baines if he can remain fit IMO.

Rex

He is already better than Baines; I reckon Shaw is the one he needs to keep out long term, and that may be a problem.

Biggus

I like Gibbo, by no means our weakest link.

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