Ramsey back to superhero mode: Page 38 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Ramsey back to superhero mode

Segway

Summed up nicely laymans.

dreamlord

He was awful today for the first 60. Couldn't control the ball, none of his flicks/first time passes worked, and in one instance he under hit a fucking 3 yard pass on the left wing.

Clrnc

dreamlord wrote:
in one instance he under hit a fucking 3 yard pass on the left wing.

I died at that.

You should have seen Monreal's reaction to that on the replays.

Temo

Segway wrote:
Summed up nicely laymans.

Yep

Rex

No, it is far from nicely summed up. Ramsey was very good, and our best player, in the second half today, and he had a really good game away at Palace despite playing on the wing. Wenger needs to stop fucking around though and play Ramsey, our best central midfielder by an absolute street, in the middle where he is at his best. There is no doubt in my mind that had Özil been available today we would have seen Ramsey on the flank once again. It's madness, pure and simple; you play your best and most important players, the game changers, in their best positions and then use that as a base. That means Cech in goal, Kos at CB, Ramsey, Coquelin and Özil in the middle, and Alexis on the flank. That should be the fucking blueprint, and then you make it work with the supporting cast.

Anzac

Ramsey's starting position on the pitch has frakk all impact as his role essentially is the same regardless.
He has not been a genuine B2B payer for some time & is essentially playing from the AM line looking to impose overloads across the line, and then making attacking runs into space in the area ahead of the ball as our 3rd goal scoring role.
AW's 4141 last season was to play 4 players across the AM line in close support to Giroud as linking CF, as he wants us to play high in the opposition half in the final 3rd.

Anzac

Rex wrote:
No, it is far from nicely summed up. Ramsey was very good, and our best player, in the second half today, and he had a really good game away at Palace despite playing on the wing. Wenger needs to stop fucking around though and play Ramsey, our best central midfielder by an absolute street, in the middle where he is at his best. There is no doubt in my mind that had Özil been available today we would have seen Ramsey on the flank once again. It's madness, pure and simple; you play your best and most important players, the game changers, in their best positions and then use that as a base. That means Cech in goal, Kos at CB, Ramsey, Coquelin and Özil in the middle, and Alexis on the flank. That should be the fucking blueprint, and then you make it work with the supporting cast.

AW's tactics aren't based upon positions & shape but more so upon the role he wants the player to play based upon their attributes & style of play. There is no need for multiple playmaking roles but Aw persists because he wants to increase our technical ability and pace of our 1 touch passing around the area. Rather than change what he wants us to do he will look to improve the efficiency of what we are doing in terms of that style, rather than functionality of any position.

yuv

y va marquer wrote:
these first four games have told me nothing apart from telling me that our best players are still a way off of their best form.

I think so too. But I'm a bit surprised people think Ramsey's playing well - I didn't even see much into his performance in the second half. I'm not too bothered, as I trust him completely to regain form, but at this time I do wonder why so many consider him as a definite strater - to me he's definitely one of "our best players still a way off of their best form". In general I think no one in the front unit (omit Coq) are playing as well as they did last year. That's quite a draw back.
In contrast, back 4 look good: I love what Nacho does for a while now, Bellers has certainly not regressed, Kos out of form talk was exaggerated, and I loved Gab today.
And coq is boss. Motm today as far as I'm concerned, and in the "worry his good patch may be over vs there's more to come from him", I tend to be with the latter.

Coombs

Needs a change. Either the bench or a more restricted role in CM. He's not a striker, no matter how good his movement can be, the rest of it just isn't there. Should be considered world class and untouchable in his position by now considering what we all know he can do.

Klaus

Wenger doesn't work that way. He doesn't build teams to get the most out of his best players anymore. He moves them around instead to positions where they become half as effective in order to squeeze in lesser players in the team, and then he sticks with his internal solutions until they break down by default, either through injury or old age.

Anzac

Klaus wrote:
Wenger doesn't work that way. He doesn't build teams to get the most out of his best players anymore. He moves them around instead to positions where they become half as effective in order to squeeze in lesser players in the team, and then he sticks with his internal solutions until they break down by default, either through injury or old age.

The team collective and the prioritisation of playing opportunities for developing players.

Claudius

Ramsey is not a great player. His 4 months of form fooled many. But I think he's better than, e.g., Gerrard. Ramsey would actually shine in a stable system. If he was playing with Ozil and Matic in midfield, he would be wonderful. Of course, we'd also need a proper front 3. Wingers Frankensquad is killing players across the board

Temo

Rex wrote:
That means Cech in goal, Kos at CB, Ramsey, Coquelin and Özil in the middle, and Alexis on the flank.

He will get his opportunity alongside Coquelin, I'm sure. Thing is, Coquelin has almost cemented himself into that position and you very much get the sense that Wenger's now looking for a CM to partner him.

I think Wenger likes Ramsey, perhaps more than you'd think, but now he either has to give up on Coqulien or our ability to control the tempo of our games to have him in there.

Anyway, as I said, I'm sure you'll get your wish enough times this season, let's see how it pans out.

Rex

He likes Ramsey plenty, of course, since he is a top class player. The problem is that he likes Cazorla waaaaaay too much. He moves Ramsey around because he knows he will still get a 6 or 7 out of 10 performance from him regardless of position. He does that to accommodate Cazorla, who can't play anywhere else than in the middle these days.

It shouldn't be about 'we'll see Ramsey quite a bit in the middle this season anyway'; Ramsey, Coquelin and Özil should be our default central midfield as much as possible, and Cazorla should be the guy who fills in when necessary. It is downright stupid to not give the three best players for those positions enough game time to make it work as well as they possibly can.

You look at Chelsea last season, and you saw Moron deciding from the start to play Fabregas in a deeper role along with Matic. Now, we as Arsenal fans KNOW that it defensively brings its own problems with Cesc in that role. Even a negative manager like Moron decided to stick with that, because they are by far his best central midfielders, and use the year to make it work. They got off to a flying start last season, which helped of course, but there were plenty of times where Cesc let the team down defensively.

y va marquer

Until Ramsey can control his passing / possesion game to something approaching Cazorla standard Wenger will continue using him on the right.
I don't see that as Wenger overrating Cazorla, it's a case of him not trusting the combination of Coquelin and Ramsey to run the midfield right now.

Rex

Yeah, it should be pretty clear that I disagree with what Wenger is doing in a lot of situations so...

y va marquer

Like pretty much everyone else 🙂

Qwiss

y va marquer wrote:
Until Ramsey can control his passing / possesion game to something approaching Cazorla standard Wenger will continue using him on the right.
I don't see that as Wenger overrating Cazorla, it's a case of him not trusting the combination of Coquelin and Ramsey to run the midfield right now.

I don't think Santi is controlling our passing and possession at the moment. I'm starting to think Santi is going to go through lots of up and down spells every season. Last season he was getting a lot of criticism until he moved into the middle with Coq and while at the time it looked like a tactical solution, and in part it was, I think its becoming more clear now that it was also just a hit of form for Santi. I've been more in support of Santi than most over the summer, certainly never wanted him sold but he should be one of our first back ups, not a starter ahead of our best CM in that position.

Mirth

I agree, Santi's experience was useful when Coquelin first broke through and allowed Coquelin to focus on the basics but now that we're past that phase I don't think there's any need to keep playing him there.

I think Wenger would agree with you as well based on the way we lined up against West Ham but I think that defeat must have forced him to go back to a more tried and tested approach

goon

I think it's pretty obvious that Wenger views Aaron as someone undroppable. Even before he had that monster season he was a constant in the side when fit, even when the fans got on his back. That's all to do with his talent.

With Santi I think it's a little different, I think he's purely in there for his unique ability to control the game and find guys like Ozil and Aaron when they find a pocket of space in the final third with a bit of incisive passing. Problem is I don't think he's been doing that at all in the last two games, he's been picking the safe option and he's been misplacing passes. It was quite notable that Kos put in a better ball to Santi for our goal than Santi managed to put into to any of our players in the entire game.

Times like this Wenger needs to be a bit more ruthless in changing things. Given that Ozil was out I can understand him picking Santi against Newcastle, but I hope he's a lot quicker to change things around based on form.

« Previous Page Next Page »