Prem stuff 14/15: Page 26 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Prem stuff 14/15

ElGeniodeOviedo

Football isn't really a sport very suited to statistical analysis. There is quite a difference between some "chances created" and "completed passes"; otherwise Denilson and Leon Britton would be CM's in the class of Xavi

Patters

I sort of agree with Alfonso/Tony. I wasn't disappointed with Ozil's contribution last season, but if he has another season like that I will be. A lot has been said about how Ozil needs some pace to work with, and hopefully he gets that this season, but I'm also looking for a bit more individual drive. It's likely to come. I remember his performance in the second half at St. Mary's last season was praised a lot and that was because he was almost single-handedly dragging us to a win by running at Southampton. You don't have to be a one man show like Suarez but I've seen more qualities like that from him in a Germany shirt.

To get the acclaim of the masses (and to get Neil Ashton to admit he's a clown), for attacking players - midfielders or forwards - it is always about the fantasy football points. Wilshere or Ozil could have had great performances in a big game but if you don't register a goal or an assist, no-one's going to talk about it.

On the Chelsea game today, that looked like bread and butter for that insanely good line-up. I hope the 5th-10th placed teams can kick on from last season and improve. That's where we tend to take proportionately more points compared to the title contenders.

I am Arsenal Till I Die

This whole Cesc v Ozil talk is quite pointless. Everyone knows both of them are world calss players and 2 of the best in the world in their positions at the moment. The wankfest over the Fabregas assist is rather silly when you consider Ozil would have played that ball in his sleep.

The reason you don't see that side to Ozil is simply because if we were playing we wouldn't have a player making the run that Schurrle did.

Gunner89

Jed wrote:
evoh wrote:
Matic - Fabregas is the ultimate CM pairing, total balance.

For all the talk of fabregas being carried defensively he managed 3 tackles, 3 interceptions, and a clearance today.

Matic is the one. Was gutted when they signed him and has fitted in well in their team.

Our rivals for the title have Matic and Fernando as holders, we have Arteta. That's the biggest difference I'm afraid.

Nope-

Man City had 4 league scorers more than Giroud

Liverpool had 2 comfortably higher. Sturridge has whacked in about the same amount of goals that Giroud has in half the appearances and that's when he was sharing the goal-scoring with Suarez.

Rooney outscored Giroud in the league and Van Persie was a few behind having missed half the season.

Chelsea also had the same problem but they've brought in a 35 goal man from last season who's already scored on debut and nearly every pre-season game.

For all the talk about missing a DM if Giroud had finished a few of the several clear cut chances we had in those games we could have finished league winners. Now I know some retard always wants to say instead of 6-3 it would have been 6-4 but at 75 minutes in the chelsea game 0-0, scoring the first chance at stamford bridge at 0-0, equalising against city in the middle of the second half etc. If you don't think these things make a difference than you don't get the game.

Gunner89

Cesc is always going to beat Ozil in goals with the number he racks up and if gives him Giroud and Sanogo to work with than assists as well. I said one week ago that some bet site was offering 14/1 Cesc top assister in the league. With Costa in front of him and them being one of the better set-piece sides as long as he stays away from injury it's free money.

ludovicvanzis

Diego Costa did fuck all. Why is Giroud getting brought up so much in here?

Both teams have static strikers, the difference is Chelsea have 2 ridiculously direct wingers. We have Cazorla.

I've heard Wenger with my own ears talk about the striker in this formation having the function of playing in the wingers. It's not Giroud that sticks out and doesnt fit, it's Cazorla.

Burnwinter

Gunner89 wrote:
Man City had 4 league scorers more than Giroud

😆 City have four players who scored more than Giroud, but Giroud—by himself—is the problem. I guess he's so bad he's worth -3 players or something?

Giroud's far from ideal, mediocre even, but you can't get away with that logic, your argument's proving we don't have the firepower we need throughout the forward areas.

Irishgunner

http://gfycat.com/SandyRevolvingAquaticleech

The pass for Schurrle's goal was filthy.

Can't wait to see Sanchez, Theo, and Chambo, in the front three at some point. Chelsea are so dangerous because of their direct wingers, playing the likes of Cazorla is holding us back.

Alfonso

y va marquer wrote:
Alfonso wrote:
I have noticed a lot on here: big up our overrated players like Cazorla and Ozil but dismiss world class opposition players like Suarez, Rooney and Cesc.

I know were an dedicated Arsenal forum but we won something last year, let go of this small time attitude.

It's ok to applaud the competition.

There's a distinction to be drawn between applauding memorable performances in great games (big occasion, top team v top team - Chelsea v Burnley doesn't qualify) versus the almost awestruck bowing and scraping that goes on around here.
Last I checked Cesc and Rooney failed on the big stage of the WC.
What exactly are we supposed to be applauding them for?

By the way Aguero got lots of applause for his goal yesterday.
It was brilliant.

What did Aguero do on the world stage?

Alfonso

Tony Montana wrote:
General Mirth wrote:
Ozil's been top class since 2011 anyway, an average first season in English football doesn't suddenly mean he's got to prove himself all over again. He needs to adapt and take responsibility, sure, but his quality isn't up for debate.

Footballers need to prove themselves every week and every season.

Exactly. Success is never owned, it's rented. And the rent money is due every day.

Alfonso

Klaus wrote:
The question of whether he's been world class or not is irrelevant, I mean.

We can argue all day about subjective views, but ultimately it's very easy for someone who thinks he was class last season to back up that opinion with tangible numbers (just browse a few pages back and that should get you started), and pretty hard for someone who thinks that "he's done fuckall in 2014" to do the same. Statistics don't tell the whole story but I have a lot more time for people who can argue their viewpoint properly than those who think that every single opinion is as good as the next "because my eyes don't lie".

I'm not referring to you here, Tony, so relax.

That's all from me, kids.

Your deluding yourself if you think Ozil had a good year in 2014. I don't care what stats you bring up, I suggest you watch the Bayern Munich at home game.

This is what I mean about this forum. Cazorla was lauded world class after two games two years ago.

ludovicvanzis

Ozil was great. Get a grip.

marv3llous

The thing i always come across when talking about Özil with his so-called 'haters' is that in the end it will all come down to the fact that their expectations and fundamental understanding about football and footballers is completely different. They will never appreciate or acknowledge a player like Özil because for them it is not possible that a player with his traits could ever be considered 'world class'.

Segway

It's obvious Özil is going to get measured up against Cesc since Wenger turned the latter down because he is building the side around Özil. He was good last season but he HAS to step up and be world class for us and there are no excuses when Walcott returns to the side.

Anyway, English media have gone typically in full knee-jerk mode after the first round of the season. Wilshere is shit and Cesc are turning Chelsea into the most entertaining side to watch in the Prem. They played Burnley at home ffs 😆

y va marquer

Alfonso wrote:
y va marquer wrote:
There's a distinction to be drawn between applauding memorable performances in great games (big occasion, top team v top team - Chelsea v Burnley doesn't qualify) versus the almost awestruck bowing and scraping that goes on around here.
Last I checked Cesc and Rooney failed on the big stage of the WC.
What exactly are we supposed to be applauding them for?

By the way Aguero got lots of applause for his goal yesterday.
It was brilliant.

What did Aguero do on the world stage?

He was injured for the most part during the world cup so not a lot recently is the answer to your question but he's undeniably world class and most people around here applaud his class.
Not fawning over Cesc or Rooney has nothing to do with being "small time" - personally I only applaud opposition players when the mood takes me.
Then again I actually enjoy watching rivals lose as opposed to applauding their players performances against smaller teams like Burnley.
To me that run of the mill standard football fandom.

Mirth

As I recall, most on here applauded van Persie's goal against Spain (admittedly with a lot of abuse thrown in) so this conversation is getting a bit silly.

Nela

The problem with the whole Özil situation is that he's a world class 40+ million player who had an average/underwhelming first season by his own standards and some people act like acknowleding that is some form of treason or makes you "a hater."

Özil will never be judged by Rosicky-level standards, because most of us believe that he is a world class player. With that comes expectation. It's one thing to have different opinions on players. I probably have some opinions other people think are crazy and way off. But you'd have to have your head burried in the sand not to realize that Özil didn't live up to his world class standards his first season. That doesn't mean he's doomed to fail at Arsenal. It doesn't mean he can't fullfill his potential this season and take the league by storm. We all want him to succeed and show the level of performance that we only saw glimpses of last season(ok, except maybe Biggus).

We know he has the talent level, and we're all desperate to see it this season. And if he does reach those heights, some of his stans will probably try to claim that those who dared to criticize him were wrong when in actuality it will only show how much he underperformed his first season relative to the level of player that he is.

Khanuppet

I'm still convinced van Persie tripped and lucked into that goal...

marv3llous

Nela wrote:
probably have some opinions other people think are crazy and way off. But you'd have to have your head burried in the sand not to realize that Özil didn't live up to his world class standards his first season.

Absolutely no one is claiming he did. The argument has always been 'he didnt do fuck all' vs 'he did plenty, but can do way more'.

y va marquer

General Mirth wrote:
As I recall, most on here applauded van Persie's goal against Spain (admittedly with a lot of abuse thrown in) so this conversation is getting a bit silly.

Indeed. Thought VP's goal was one of the best scored at the WC.

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