Vidal with another two goals today.

Irish gunner wrote:

Honda and Ferrari score in the Milan vs Spezia match 😆

Haha,that's cool

Burnwinter wrote:

It's not really a very similar appointment to Guardiola. Interesting choice anyway.

Missed this post earlier.

It's pretty similar. They were both chosen for the impression their personalities had made on respective club rather than their management skills (of which they had none, or in Guardiola's case, close to none). By all accounts Seedorf is a deep thinker; more like Arséne Wenger than your average footballer. He's been that way since he was a teenager, pretty much. I read his biography a couple of years ago. There's some interesting stuff from Bruno Demichelis, a pioneer within sport psychology who is credited with the establishment of Milan Lab and acted as Milan's club psychologist for over twenty years. Demichelis claimed that he had never encountered anyone like Seedorf. Not Baresi, not Maldini, not Pirlo, not Ancelotti, not Donadoni, not Rijkaard, not Gullit or anyone else of all the greats who have been with the club. It's worth noting that the book was written when Seedorf still only was 27 and was yet to cement his legacy at the club. This is a guy whose mental strength, maturity and ability to analyse the game went far beyond his years.

Milan is perhaps the number one club in the world that has made those traits an integral part of who they are, so it stands to reason that they should be able to recognise someone with extraordinary qualities. Rumour has it that they wanted Seedorf as manager years ago but he wasn't ready to call quits on his career at the time.

Very interesting points Klaus.

In the one-liner above I was referring to Guardiola as an internal promotion - he'd coached Barcelona B for a couple of years prior to taking on the first team.

That's a very Barca-ish way of doing things, and Seedorf's case doesn't reflect a similar philosophy in the way he was appointed, despite the club connection.

He's been emergency drafted mid season following a sacking, without even having had an immediate ambition to start coaching, though obviously it was his longer term plan.

I don't think two years worth of experience with the reserve team mattered much to the world's most successful football club when they were looking for a replacement to Rijkaard, though. Barca could literally have picked any manager in the world. I've seen it suggested that letting Guardiola coach Barca B was mostly a way to keep him within the club until they needed him.

Personally I think Seedorf was earmarked to take over in the summer. Allegri's contact was running out and Milan had already told him last season that they wouldn't renew it. When he went and screwed up so badly this year they had to fire him to save what could be saved of the season, though. The choice was down to using an interim manager or go for the guy they really wanted immediately. Seedorf had a clause in his contract with Botafogo that allowed him to retire at any time. It's not something you usually have inserted into a written agreement. He waited for this opportunity. Allegri has been hanging loose for almost two years now.

Guardiola did get Barca B up two divisions while he was their coach. Surely it assisted his managerial career to some extent to produce solid results there.

The context on Seedorf is very interesting. You've certainly given him a positive review, I guess we'll see how he goes. Milan doesn't seem like a stable club at the moment.

dreamlord wrote:

Pogba vs Ramsey?

both, but if i had to choose then, pogba. i just love that dude's game. how does one hit the ball so sweetly from deep consistently like that. what a player. so glad he's not a yanited player.

Burnwinter wrote:

Guardiola did get Barca B up two divisions while he was their coach. Surely it assisted his managerial career to some extent to produce solid results there.

Yeah, fair enough. I said similar though, not identical. 🙂

Burnwinter wrote:

The context on Seedorf is very interesting. You've certainly given him a positive review, I guess we'll see how he goes. Milan doesn't seem like a stable club at the moment.

No, they don't. Italian football is so tactical by nature too. It's a tough climate to succeed in as a first-timer. Any short-term success will probably depend at least partly on how good the assistant manager is. I still think there's every reason for the Rossoneri to be optimistic about this, though. His major concern at the moment should be whether he'll get some funds to spend in the summer, because the current squad is horrible.

dreamlord wrote:

Pogba vs Ramsey?

Ramsey. More range, and he's doing it in the world's most competitive league. Pogba needs to improve his passing a bit before he's anywhere near the level Ramsey played at during the first half of this season imo. Incredible amount of raw talent though. It's not hard to envision him being one of the midfielders who'll define the next ten years of European football.

Seedorf: "After that match, we formed a circle all together in the locker room. We'll do it after every match; win, draw or loss."

Klaus wrote:
dreamlord wrote:

Pogba vs Ramsey?

Ramsey. More range, and he's doing it in the world's most competitive league. Pogba needs to improve his passing a bit before he's anywhere near the level Ramsey played at during the first half of this season imo. Incredible amount of raw talent though. It's not hard to envision him being one of the midfielders who'll define the next ten years of European football.

Agreed. Vidal is on par with Ramsey though in my opinion.

Vidal is better than Ramsey right now. Done it for three seasons in a row, best centre mid in Europe IMO. I think Ramsey has more vision and playmaking potential than both Pogba and Vidal though.

Klaus wrote:
dreamlord wrote:

Pogba vs Ramsey?

Ramsey. More range, and he's doing it in the world's most competitive league. Pogba needs to improve his passing a bit before he's anywhere near the level Ramsey played at during the first half of this season imo. Incredible amount of raw talent though. It's not hard to envision him being one of the midfielders who'll define the next ten years of European football.

Think you are underrating Pogba's passing. He's a very accomplished passer; chipped passes, diagonals over long distance, outside of the boot passes etc I have seen him pull off amazing passes! I 1st noticed his passing ability somewhere in 2012; Juve were struggling to break down a stubborn midtable team and Pogba just went on a mazy run on the right wing and pulled off an outrageous outside of the boot passes to Giaccherini, who went on to cock-up the chance, but made amends later with the goal that won the match for Juve. It's no coincidence he's the one that fills in for Pirlo whenever the Maestro is out injured or rested. His passing ability is definitely one of his strengths IMO.

I think he's much more of a technician than Ramsey, and is far more skilful too. I remember watching him play against Spain, he was just gliding through Spain's pressing with ease. He played like a boss, in what was his 1st outing for France, and was comfortably their best player. I rate Ramsey more in the final 3rd; think he's got more potential in front of goal despite Pogba's fine scoring form for Juve.

Marchisio filled in for Pirlo at the weekend and did a better job than Pogba has ever done in that position.

Didn't watch the match, but Pogba has always filled in for Pirlo in the past 2 seasons.

Hopefully Seedorf manages to get the best out of Balotelli. He's had to work with idiots like Mourinho and Mancini and playing for Allegri and his six defensive midfielder system had to be tough as well.

Milan looked much more attacking last night; they pressed high up the pitch and looked to play more in the opponent's half, but they ran out of gas in the 2nd half.

Romulo and Iturbe looked very good for Verona.

Pogba's passing is a bit like Rosicky's in my opinion. Fancy but often ineffective.

I've seen the extended highlights from the Milan game now. Awful, awful sideways football, but Verona are better than the table lets on. Didn't think Milan had it in them to win this one. Only noticeable about the game was that they seemed to move away from the three-man defensive midfield which has been clogging up their football all season. Seedorf's main problem is that he doesn't have any players who can do much better, apart from Montolivo. There are so few of them left after Allegri's systematic gutting.