Youth team development: Page 149 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Youth team development

QuincyAbeyie

goon wrote:
jones wrote:
I bitch about Gnabry all the time and I was advocating for him to start over Ox since 2012 fwiw

You also wanted Joel Campbell to start over Ox though so that really isn’t saying much.

Campbell did decently for us those few times he got the chance.

Claudius

Hudson-Odoi is the truth. We don’t have a young forward on his level. I’d like to think Sarri has a long term plan for him because every time he plays, he delivers. I would buy him at the quoted prices.

Hunter

Hudson-Odoi, Sancho and Foden are guaranteed superstars, it’s not exaggerating to say those three are the three biggest talents born 2000 onwards. Vinicius at Madrid who people hype up isn’t as good as Sancho and at best is close to Hudson-Odoi.

Foden is arguably the best of the lot, he’s basically Jack Wilshere without injuries.

Hunter

Having said all that, just because the likes of Nelson and Amaechi aren’t quite at that level, it doesn’t mean they aren’t worth a spot in the first team.

Beyond the usual names, Azeez and Musah in our u17s are probably our biggest talents, both play CM and start for England u17s together. We were very close to losing Musah to Juventus last summer.

jones

Vinicius at best close to Hudson Odoi? The kid who's Madrid's player of the season isn't as good as a kid with like 10 top flight appearances?

That's the thing with England and their talents. You want them to do well until the delusion starts rearing its head again

Claudius

Jones. The difference is this. I think folks have only seen CHO in limited appearances, particularly in the Europa League. He has admittedly looked excellent.
Vinicius, on the other hand, is doing a real job, keeping Bale out of the team and going through his growing pains and we see all the problems a young man has to go through like learning when to dribble versus when to pass, etc. Watch his recent cup performance against Barca where they lost. Was marvelous. He’s a better talent playing at a higher level and being exposed

Hunter

jones wrote:
Vinicius at best close to Hudson Odoi? The kid who's Madrid's player of the season isn't as good as a kid with like 10 top flight appearances?

That's the thing with England and their talents. You want them to do well until the delusion starts rearing its head again

Difference is I’ve been watching Hudson-Odoi dominate since the u17s. It’s not delusion if you know youth football.

DiabyKungFu

Reiss Nelson and Hudson-Odoi both played in Premier League 2 last season. Reiss Nelson won Premier League 2 Player of the Season. "Reiss Nelson is not on the same level as Hudson-Odoi" is an utterly baffling opinion.

jones

Hunter wrote:
jones wrote:
Vinicius at best close to Hudson Odoi? The kid who's Madrid's player of the season isn't as good as a kid with like 10 top flight appearances?

That's the thing with England and their talents. You want them to do well until the delusion starts rearing its head again

Difference is I’ve been watching Hudson-Odoi dominate since the u17s. It’s not delusion if you know youth football.

Dominate minors. Vinicius plays in the best league of the world, for the biggest club in the world, put in a MOTM performance vs Barcelona etc pp how is this an actual debate.

Clrnc

Vinicius is a sure talent, but if there is any weakness in his game he is utterly hopeless in the final 3rd at current age. Decision making is pretty inconsistent but that comes with experience. Hudson-Odoi all round game is not Vinicius level but he seems to be deadly in front of goal and has a fantastic final ball.

Anyway my original point is no doubt our young trio is talented, I have high hopes for them as well but they are not ready to start or play a part for us yet. We are better off investing in a legit class winger and loan our youth players out. Let other clubs blood them. Nelson is the closest for me but other than that the rest need another season or two.

Hunter

jones wrote:
Hunter wrote:
Difference is I’ve been watching Hudson-Odoi dominate since the u17s. It’s not delusion if you know youth football.

Dominate minors. Vinicius plays in the best league of the world, for the biggest club in the world, put in a MOTM performance vs Barcelona etc pp how is this an actual debate.

He's also scored 2 goals in 15 league games.

Sounds like I don't rate Vinicius but I just rate the English lads so highly, we haven't had players of their ilk in a long long time. the 2000 generation is arguably our best ever.

goon

Clrnc wrote:
Vinicius is a sure talent, but if there is any weakness in his game he is utterly hopeless in the final 3rd at current age. Decision making is pretty inconsistent but that comes with experience. Hudson-Odoi all round game is not Vinicius level but he seems to be deadly in front of goal and has a fantastic final ball.

Anyway my original point is no doubt our young trio is talented, I have high hopes for them as well but they are not ready to start or play a part for us yet. We are better off investing in a legit class winger and loan our youth players out. Let other clubs blood them. Nelson is the closest for me but other than that the rest need another season or two.

I wasn’t advocating putting the rest the deep end, but just keep them in mind for future. If Nelson is getting Welbeck’s spot then Saka and Amaechi can fight it out as Mkhis spot when he’s gone. If you keep buying players while you loan out your young prospects though then there’s no route in for them regardless of how good they may be.

Hunter

Seems like Daley-Campbell will be leaving this summer, probably our best defensive prospect. There was talk of him going to the Bundesliga last summer but it seems like it's definitely happening now. He's a beast, must have been guaranteed a lot of game time from a German club.

jones

goon wrote:
jones wrote:
I bitch about Gnabry all the time and I was advocating for him to start over Ox since 2012 fwiw

You also wanted Joel Campbell to start over Ox though so that really isn’t saying much.

Yeah see how that turned out. One guy who always played his heart out and left it all on the pitch and we completely derailed his career, not only didn't he get a fair shot at Arsenal but we ruined all momentum he had gained during his great WC 2014 wasting everyone's time with those dumbass loans. I also maintain his performance vs Olympiakos in the CL away win is better than anything Ox ever did

The other rat fuck put in some of the worst displays from an Arsenal attacker I've ever seen and had no problem dumping us to be closer to his ~~boyfriend~~ idol Stevie Me. Five years and 200 games later and hes still the same dumbass making the same schoolboy mistakes thankfully not for us anymore. I reckon we'd have been better off if Wenger needed my advice

Klaus

Chamberlain's problem was the way the knee injuries did him in, not his talent. Bit like Gnabry actually who was being fast tracked into the first team and given plenty of playing time at eighteen. He was easily one of Wenger's favourite players and then he did his ACL and struggled to come back. Shit happens.

Campbell was just nonsense, and he's still nonsense today. Nothing player with the lungs of a chemo patient. If anyone in a good league ever gets anything out of him I'll buy a hat and eat it.

Clrnc

Campbell is clearly talented but like you say football has no place for people without stamina.

I think Gnabry was far more talented than Ox and it is showing now. Hardly anyone rated Gnabry back in those days when he can't get into Pulis West Brom and hindsight is always easy to say, but when he first broke through there was plenty of discussions about how he is the new Jack Wilshere from the academy and plenty of excitement. I have to say we really didn't manage him well post ACL.

QuincyAbeyie

Sending pretty much any kind of attacking talent to a Pulis coached team screams bad management.

Tam

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/mar/25/arsenal-under-12-girls-boys-equal-footing

This is a very interesting article about the club mixing girls and boys at a young age, selecting them based on ability rather than gender. This might be standard in other countries or clubs but it's nice to see the club are taking a different approach and it really seems to be paying off.

The article touches on it somewhat, but I think it will also be interesting to see how the social aspects impact those coming through from youth teams. Well, we may not actually see it but I'm sure over time it would be something the coaches could pick up on. I'm sure Mertesacker has talked a fair bit on the importance of personal development in young players, and this more inclusive approach must surely help that.

banduan

Yes since boys and girls only start differentiating in terms of growth in the later teens it makes sense to train them together in the pre-teens and tweens.

QuincyAbeyie

Nelson on his diciplinary dropping and life in Germany:

[size=medium]“I was late to training, I was 20 minutes late, and that’s something I need to learn from.[/size]
[size=medium]“You can make mistakes but it’s your job and you shouldn’t be late.[/size]
[size=medium]“I held my hand up and I said sorry to him and we both moved on as bigger men. He put me in the squad the next week because I’d been doing well.”

“I’ve been out there for 10 months by myself.
“It’s not been easy and I haven’t had my mum or my brother about. I’ve got to do my own shopping, I haven’t got many friends out there but it’s my job and I’m there to play football.
[/size][size=medium]“When I do come back I do like to go out with my friends and see family because in Germany I’m on a mission. I do like to enjoy myself when I’m back but that’s normal for a guy my age.[/size]
[size=medium][size=medium]“I don’t get homesick but my family are very good, they’ll fly straight over and my brother will come and stay for a month and my mum will come over any time I ask her.”[/size][/size]

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