Youth team development: Page 147 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Youth team development

Mirth

Possibly because you're drawing a false equivalence between working hard and defending. Ronaldo is possibly the most ambitious and hardest working footballer I've seen but he wasn't exactly tearing back to defend in his early days either.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Well whatever Nelson's problems are, he should just perform these neanderthal things that the Neville sisters and co fawn over and get on with it. Clearly his natural talent isn't proving to be enough with his coaches so knuckle down and sort it out mate.

Ray

Sounds similar to Pulis and Gnabry?

MistaT

Talent will get you a look in the first team, but results are expected once you're playing. Nelson was producing that early on but oddly couldn't find any more playing time, so in my mind some this stall out has to be on Nagelsmann.

Clrnc

Anyway whatever it is it's also a clear sign for us that he is nowhere near ready to play a part for us yet. Probably need a few more loans. We need to get a proper winger in.

Hunter

I’ve followed Nelson’s loan closely as I rate our set of u18-u23s as the best we’ve had in a decade.

Nelson started the season brilliantly, looking like one of Hoffenheim’s top players alongside Joelinton, Demirbay and Grillitsch. After some great goals coming on as a sub, and then doing the business from the start, it was frustrating to see him then get constantly benched, or subbed off at 60mins if he started. I don’t think he once got a full 90 or back to back starts, despite saving their arse numerous times.

People were saying it was good by Naglesmann to not overplay him, however he’s actually underplayed him, since Xmas he’s basically been getting 15 minute tops if he comes on at all, it’s terrible treatment for a guy who done so much for them earlier in the season. Of course we don’t know what’s gone on behind the scenes, but to me it seems like they realised it was a dry loan and they had no chance of signing him permanently and so decided to gradually do without him.

He’ll be a great squad player for us, hopefully we get Smith Rowe, Amaechi and Saka better loans.

Claudius

Hunter, didn't he have some personal problems as well? What was keeping him to 15 minute cameos?

Hunter

Claudius wrote:
Hunter, didn't he have some personal problems as well? What was keeping him to 15 minute cameos?

He had personal problems when they were returning from their winter break, so he was a week or so behind training then. Then he got injured for a couple of weeks but since then he's been getting less and less minutes.

He missed a couple of chances against City and Lyon in the Champions League (again coming on as a sub in both games) before the winter break but he was still performing to a high level and I actually thought his dribbling and defending was improving, but obviously he hasn't had a sniff post Xmas.

I think we need to be careful with Smith Rowe and learn from this Nelson loan. Seems to me that Bundesliga clubs are fine with loaning these youngsters, but if there's no give from the club who owns the player to maybe allow a permanent transfer, they don't really need to 'waste' their time playing the player.

Maybe 2 year loans are more worthwhile for everybody going forward, that may be why Smith Rowe has gone in January, settle in and get a few games before the end of the season and then go on a full season loan ready to go from the start.

Hunter

Before I forget about posting this as well, I rate Xavier Amaechi higher than both Nelson and Saka from our academy wingers. He has everything to make it here and we need to get him tied down ASAP.

He has everything the other two lads have, but he also has the height and physicality to transition to mens football quicker. A left footer who can play on either flank and is technically superb is a rarity.

He got injured for a few months when the other youngsters were getting Europe League minutes, if not I'm sure he'd have been ahead of Saka for those games. He was England's star player at the u17 Euros in 2018, led them to the SF's were they lost with him suspended, if he hadn't have got that silly yellow in the game before he'd have led them all the way IMO.

Meatwad

loans at that level are always going to be complicated if the player isn't producing because they have no incentive to develop him. if reiss was under contract at hoffeinheim they would persist with him because of the financial incentive.

goon

Hunter wrote:
Before I forget about posting this as well, I rate Xavier Amaechi higher than both Nelson and Saka from our academy wingers. He has everything to make it here and we need to get him tied down ASAP.

He has everything the other two lads have, but he also has the height and physicality to transition to mens football quicker. A left footer who can play on either flank and is technically superb is a rarity.

He got injured for a few months when the other youngsters were getting Europe League minutes, if not I'm sure he'd have been ahead of Saka for those games. He was England's star player at the u17 Euros in 2018, led them to the SF's were they lost with him suspended, if he hadn't have got that silly yellow in the game before he'd have led them all the way IMO.

I think Saka's explosiveness will serve him better at the top level than Amaechi's height. The latter and Nelson are not exactly slow and sluggish, but Saka's effortless burst looks to be on another level.

Jed

Both Saka and Amaechi are pretty much the same height.

Hunter

Jed wrote:
Both Saka and Amaechi are pretty much the same height.

Amaechi always looks a few inches taller to me, will have to see next time I watch them.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

I get Gnabry vibes about Amaechi, as in I get the feeling we won't be able to tie him down.

Whenever we seemingly have the type of player our first team could desperately use we usually end up losing them.

Ricky1985

I'm not as much of an expert on Amaechi as I am on Nelson, but I can say with certainty that Nelson is significantly more talented.

I don't know what's going on at Hoffenheim with Nagelsmann but it's good experience for Nelson regardless. And if he does have a problem with discipline or applying himself in training, the latter criticism is the one I have heard Nagelmann himself make, then I'm pleased he's learning the hard way that it's not acceptable.

I would personally say that I have never seen a problem with Nelson's workrate. He does, however, have a tendency to cruise some times and take the easy option of passing when in good positions. Turning down one-v-one positions (and I have seen him do it frequently in the penalty area even) should be a criminal offence when you can dribble like he can.

I hope Nagelmann is trying to get him to demand more of himself and take responsibility.

Meatwad

Hunter wrote:
Jed wrote:
Both Saka and Amaechi are pretty much the same height.

Amaechi always looks a few inches taller to me, will have to see next time I watch them.

yeah perspective, angles, all that. still.

Hunter

Arsenal u16 lost the cup final 5-2 to Chelsea last night.

Musah and Azeez the top prospects at that level, although they’ve both been regulars at u18 level this season. Musah rejected Juventus last summer, these two lads are technically phenomenal for their age, two very good CM prospects.

Ricky1985

I've not been able to follow it all as closely this season, but Willock appears to be tearing it up. Saka had me after the Europa League game a few months back--always looks the danger man in these highlight videos.

Good to see Mavropanos get minutes too.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

I think Willock should be a first team squad option next season. Hopefully Elneny leaves and frees up a space.

Bold Tone

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