Not really been all that impressed with Fortune. Had a poor season so far and, after a bright start last season, he wasn't much cop for most of last season either. Hence being dropped back to play U18 football and even then he's not a guaranteed starter at that level.

If you want to talk about U18 talent at the club, have a look at Emile Smith-Rowe and Trae Coyle - serious potential in those two.

Of the more familiar lot - Maitland-Niles, Jeff, Willock etc.  I'd say Nelson is hands down the most likely to be able to step up to playing proper football in the first team. He's easily got the most well rounded and mature game. He's just very good at nearly all things and has a couple of real standout attributes.

I just don't see it with him Tricky. Overall quite an underwhelming group

Bielik looks a proper player mind

Ricky1985 wrote:

Sanogo was astonishingly bad. Genuinely took me aback.

I agree entirely with the the posts above about our bloated squad. For me, having players in the squad like Gabriel, Elneny and Lucas Perez (and others) that cost the club £30m+ in transfer fees and continue to cost the club 100k+ per week in wages, is just not efficient. Even more so when you have a very good youth system, with some very good players champing at the bit to get a chance.

I agree that it's most definitely not efficient buying these players when you're obviously not planning on using them any time soon. Our youth setup hasn't produced any forward on Perez' level in donkey's years though so I'm generally fine with the purchase

Ainsley is the surest thing, he's absolutely brilliant. Only a matter of time.

I agree with Dula that Nelson looks mechanical when he runs. Not a great complilation of the kid.

What happened to Wis Chrillock? He was supposed to be the shit.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert wrote:

Ainsley is the surest thing, he's absolutely brilliant. Only a matter of time.

I agree with Dula that Nelson looks mechanical when he runs. Not a great complilation of the kid.

What happened to Wis Chrillock? He was supposed to be the shit.

Only until AW gets him into the senior team at which point his development will stagnate like every other internal development project, amd/or he'll become crippled by injuries,

Ref set the tone for this bullshit

flobaba wrote:

Ref set the tone for this bullshit

Our stagnating youth set-up?

Heh, wrong thread

Ha ha now we're at the stage where we even blame the refs for our shit youth development. Wenger would be well pleased.

How many of the likes of Toral, Zelalem, Crowley etc seem to be good enough along with Iwobi, Maitland-Niles, Rienne-Adelaide & Akpom?
Do we have the base along with the likes of Wilshere, Rambo, Chambers, Holding?
If so we have enough HG, otherwise we'll need to buy.

You guys expect too much of our youth system. We should just focus on poaching the best players in the world between 16 and 19 years old. Youth development is worse than early stage venture capital in terms of guaranteed results. We made one decent player, Wilshere, and even he's gone to shit. Now it is all on Iwobi

That's because for a couple of years our youth setup is horribly managed, while clubs like Chelsea and City in particular turn it around, built new facilities and went everywhere acquiring the best talents.

Our youth academy is not up there with the best anymore. The likes of PSG, Monaco should be role models we can emulate.

Liam Brady was the most lethargic man in a high pressure job I'd seen in my life. It was clear as day the guy never done any real work. He's a punit on Irish TV and said he quit arsenal when they brought in paperwork.

That is the same feeling I got over the years watching Brady from the outside. The academy has improved without question since he stepped down.

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:

I just don't see it with him Tricky. Overall quite an underwhelming group

Bielik looks a proper player mind

Bielik looks a proper player. By all accounts he has made a big impact at struggling Birmingham. He's gotten nothing but positive reviews so far from their fans and the local press. Heard he was their best player on Saturday against Newcastle playing as the ball player in the middle of a back three.

I don't think this is an underwhelming group myself. Think there's at least 3 or 4 that have first team potential. Asking for more than that is asking for too much.

Yaya Sanogo hattrick vs reading U23

#legend

He's a born goalscorer, no doubt whatsoever about that. At what level he'll be able to do it at is hard to say until he plays against proper defenders. There's nothing really stand out in his game that I've seen - he hits it hard with little back lift and in an instant always seems to knows the spot to hit where the goalkeeper will struggle most to save it (I suppose that's a standout quality in itself) - but technically and physically he's average. Can't say I'm very excited about him but with the sheer number of goals he's scoring, perhaps I should be.

The two I'm interested to see more of are Emile Smith-Rowe and Trae Coyle. Both playing for the U18s, although the former has played a few games at U23, and they look superb from what I've managed to see.

We'll have to wait and see, but he's going to score a phenomenal amount of goals at whatever level the rest of his game enables him to play at, that is certain.

A behind the scenes look at the newly finished academy training centre at Hale End.

Looks like they've done a lot of good work there.  

Gazidis is alive after all then. Interesting to see the club have set a target of one academy player being integrated into the first team every two years. Also good to see they're making progress on the conditioning and injury prevention front at all levels of the club.

Why? I think Iwobi has been integrated very well into our squad and team.

As had Walcott, Ox, Wilshere, Rambo, Denilson, Song,
however each stalled in their progress once they'd become established, because AW's training methodology fails to provide balance as it almost exclusively prioritises technical development over all else.
As for Iwobi he has already shown signs of burn out via over use, as AW looks to play the same squad as often as possible in order to develop the 'intuitive style'.

Arsenal's "automatisms" are based on who you're playing with, rather than the system you're playing in. Both matter, but systems allow greater flexibility and can help account for the practical reality that you can't field the same players every week. Don't think Wenger has ever accepted this.

I think it's why the youth sides seem like there is some kind of system, while the senior side is a constant mess. Youth teams change rapidly, and systems are designed to hone skills, which demands some kind of specificity. What's nuts to me is that Wenger uses the senior side for remedial training, rather than skill reinforcement. It especially makes no sense when the system is so ill-defined. What exactly is Ox supposed to learn on our wing? Or Ramsey? The role is so loose that it doesn't really force the player to adapt and develop new skills, not to mention it's the bloody first team and not a training camp. He's doing it with Welbeck right now. It's maddening.

Hey, it worked with Pires...

flobaba wrote:

Hey, it worked with Pires...

Quite probably because of the stability in the rest of the squad and also that the players were already developed & only needed to develop the intuitive style.
Also helps that we had continuity when the players went to play internationals as well,
and even more so that the style of play was based upon pace & movement to create & exploit space,
and not about standing back to goal waiting for the pass to feet.

Did you see the off the ball movement from De Bruyne on that counter attack that led to a 2v1? Made that third man combo look so easy, and it took out the entire defence in just 3 one touch passes. Haven't seen stuff like that from Arsenal in a decade, it seems like.

We are so boring to watch. The youth team is no better. First of all, they're simply not that good because our scouting is average at best. More importantly, our coaching and player development is infected by the same malaise as the senior side. They just don't do things correctly.

The footballing world has passed us by while Wenger maintains complete control of the club and employs his outdated methods.

It's not that the football world has passed us. It's because we have regressed on: coaching defense, recruiting and retaining seniors, scouting youngsters, creating an identity. Everything basically. These much lauded managers are not doing anything that young Wenger has not done in his heyday

Claudius wrote:

It's not that the football world has passed us. It's because we have regressed on: coaching defense, recruiting and retaining seniors, scouting youngsters, creating an identity. Everything basically. These much lauded managers are not doing anything that young Wenger has not done in his heyday

http://talksport.com/football/arsenals-recent-transfer-policy-has-been-disaster-insists-gunners-legend-frank-mclintock

McLintock agrees.

“Arsenal were talking about challenging the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich, and that why they moved to the new stadium. But if you look at the buys they are making, the best you can say is they are adequate.

“They are not players that are going to turn Arsenal around and have them right up there at the top of the league. I think the scouting system, this year especially, has been disastrous.
“If you look at Chambers, the two centre-halves, Gabriel and Mustafi, and Xhaka, they are quite good players but they are not Arsenal standard. I can’t see them getting in the top four. It doesn’t look good at the moment. That team is definitely not good enough to win a championship in the future.”

McLintock made it clear he was talking about "the last 4 buys" to be fair when it came to transfers, but his assessment of the squad is fair. This team does not have it in themselves to win the league, and I don't think Conte or Allegri or anyone else would win with these players. The main benefit of a different manager, rather, would be that they'd assemble a better team than Wenger is capable of assembling.

Klaus wrote:

McLintock made it clear he was talking about "the last 4 buys" to be fair when it came to transfers, but his assessment of the squad is fair. This team does not have it in themselves to win the league, and I don't think Conte or Allegri or anyone else would win with these players. The main benefit of a different manager, rather, would be that they'd assemble a better team than Wenger is capable of assembling.

Not so much the last 4 buys as that would include Perez & Cech, whereas he names Chambers, Gabriel, Mustafi & Xhaka, but it's still over 90m and 2 from last summer.

With a top level manager I'd expect to see the team improve both as individuals and as a team as a result of having a defined tactic and training to match.
I'd also expect to see a better shape & style that would better suit the squad  so as to exploit the strengths and mitigate the weaknesses.
For example I consider the use of a wide 4231 as being counter productive when we pass to feet and want the WFs to come inside to play narrow with the FBs overlapping.  If we're going to play through the middle then set up to do so from the outset.  If you play wide then do so with pace and look to use space.   As such I do not think our shape compliments the style, and that the 3421 suits our narrow style better.  Likewise if we want to exploit our available pace in attack combined with our passing ability from the likes of Xhaka, Cazorla & Ozil, then we should be looking to stay wide to open the pitch to create space.

It brings to mind a comment by Jonkers when he took over the Academy that one of the first things he changed was the lack of vertical passing between the lines.

I think we'd all agree that there isn't enough off the ball movement, and that we don't counterattack effectively. We've been saying this for a decade.

But for all the pointless passing to feet, we're not even good at possession. As we've seen time and again, put just a little pressure on us by pressing high, and it all falls apart. Are the players learning anything in training under Wenger and the same backroom staff he's had for 15-20 yrs? I doubt it.

kamikaze wrote:

I think we'd all agree that there isn't enough off the ball movement, and that we don't counterattack effectively. We've been saying this for a decade.

But for all the pointless passing to feet, we're not even good at possession. As we've seen time and again, put just a little pressure on us by pressing high, and it all falls apart. Are the players learning anything in training under Wenger and the same backroom staff he's had for 15-20 yrs? I doubt it.

Problem is that the rondos they do for their 1 touch ball control have frakk all movement unless you're the mug in the middle chasing the ball.
Likewise because we start with a wide 4231 there is too much space between players that the opposition can flood on the press and easily cut off the passing options.
We should only be passing to feet when we are playing to keep the ball, whereas Cruyff says you should be passing half a meter in front to have your team moving forward onto the ball and to have momentum and purpose.

Half a meter is still passing to feet. It's not a literal expression.

I don't think formation is the problem, we're just not well-drilled. We don't look as sharp with the ball as we should given our reputation as an expensive attacking side. A lot of counterattacking opportunities from promising situations either go unseen, or are wasted by a bad/wrong/missing pass. And in possession, our approach play is simple and predictable.

kamikaze wrote:

Half a meter is still passing to feet. It's not a literal expression.

I don't think formation is the problem, we're just not well-drilled. We don't look as sharp with the ball as we should given our reputation as an expensive attacking side. A lot of counterattacking opportunities from promising situations either go unseen, or are wasted by a bad/wrong/missing pass. And in possession, our approach play is simple and predictable.

Perhaps so, but the main point is that the ball is played in front of the player so they are moving forward to receive it rather than being static and only moving once the ball is received.  If you are moving forward onto the pass then you are facing towards goal and can see passing options as the play is in front of you. Other players in the attack then have a cause to make runs into space ahead of the ball because they can be seen and not waste energy in making movement that the player on the ball can not see.

Ben Sheaf. Was a centre midfielder until this season, I didn't really think he had much of a chance of making it here, though many did. Lacked athleticism and was too slow on the ball, but had a very good passing range and set piece delivery. He's been moved to centreback this season and has been very impressive there. Shown an appetite for defending that I didn't really see when he was in midfield. If the new formation is here to stay then his chances of playing for the first team have increased, could be a very good back three defender.

Someone I know was speaking to the Dad of a kid in our U16s earlier today. The kid in question is very highly rated actually. Anyway, he was saying that Arsenal had given £15,000 a week to Reiss Nelson and a £500,000 signing on fee! Not surprised given that City are rumoured to be offering Jadon Sancho £30,000 a week to stave off interest from other clubs, us included, but that's still a massive sum for a 17 year old that's got it all to do.

Sign of the times I guess. But they wonder why these kids often lose motivation....

Also said the Dutch guys were a pain in the arse to deal with and that he personally had to get Steve Morrow in to sort out problems he was having with one of them and his son.

Ricky1985 wrote:

Ben Sheaf. Was a centre midfielder until this season, I didn't really think he had much of a chance of making it here, though many did. Lacked athleticism and was too slow on the ball, but had a very good passing range and set piece delivery. He's been moved to centreback this season and has been very impressive there. Shown an appetite for defending that I didn't really see when he was in midfield. If the new formation is here to stay then his chances of playing for the first team have increased, could be a very good back three defender.

Hasn't Bielik(sp) also been converted from DM to being used as a ball playing CB?

Ricky1985 wrote:

Someone I know was speaking to the Dad of a kid in our U16s earlier today. The kid in question is very highly rated actually. Anyway, he was saying that Arsenal had given £15,000 a week to Reiss Nelson and a £500,000 signing on fee! Not surprised given that City are rumoured to be offering Jadon Sancho £30,000 a week to stave off interest from other clubs, us included, but that's still a massive sum for a 17 year old that's got it all to do.

Sign of the times I guess. But they wonder why these kids often lose motivation....

Also said the Dutch guys were a pain in the arse to deal with and that he personally had to get Steve Morrow in to sort out problems he was having with one of them and his son.

Typical AW scenario to pay overs based more on the player's potential rather than their current suitability/performances.

To be fair to Arsenal they have absolutely no choice. If they don't pay him that, his agent finds 5 other clubs that will (and then some). The kids hold all the cards in this situation whilst there are clubs that will pay them this crazy money. As I said, City are having a very similar problem with one for their big talents, Jadon Sancho.

I'd bet good money that Arsene Wenger really doesn't like it one bit.

And, yeah, Bielik has been training and playing as a centreback for 2 seasons now. And he's been on loan playing there since January too.