Squad Analysis 2013/14: Page 95 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Squad Analysis 2013/14

Cannon

Wilshere for Cazorla is a straight swap IMO. Only concern is wilshere's injury record and fitness.

Jed

Ramsey is a starter all day.

Gunner89

The only thing Wilshere and Cazorla have in common are that they are small technical players. Wilshere is very one footed and has little in terms of goals or assists as compared to Santi who's the highest league assister collectively for the last 3 years.

Armor

Re selling Cazorla...

Its something i've considered before as i thought he wasn't a great fit in a wide role but he's been good this season, the switch to 4-3-3 has helped a lot. Above everything else though he's always fit. No way we should sell him.

Qwiss

Anzac wrote:
Zelalem, Crowley & Bielik are the next gen waiting in the wings but to bring them in now whilst the current Gen are still so disjoint would destabilise the team even more.

There is 3 guys who need a good loan next season.

Qwiss

Jed wrote:
Ramsey is a starter all day.

Of course he is. How can that even be debated?

banduan

qs! wrote:
Anzac wrote:
Zelalem, Crowley & Bielik are the next gen waiting in the wings but to bring them in now whilst the current Gen are still so disjoint would destabilise the team even more.

There is 3 guys who need a good loan next season.

Yeah. Look how Jenko has progressed, and Coq too.

Shady

Do we have a Wilshere thread? - feels like we need one.

My opinion is this: he has huge potential, but with each year it becomes less certain that he will ever fulfill said potential. We have no need to sell him, but he should be one of the last guys in the 25 man squad. He's most certainly not first team material, and fitness wise can't be relied upon even in a squad rotation role, as we'd have someone such as Cazorla occupy.

In terms of his actual position. If he's ever going to be world class it'll be as a Modric type player. He will never make it as a winger, or as a number 10. His skillset is set for that central midfield role, but there are aspects of his game he needs to work on. He still has time to do this.

You need your group of 14-15 players competing for a first eleven spot, then another 6-7 to fill squad roles. Then you have a handful of spots left for additional players: your special case players: Diaby, Wilshere, etc.

Irishgunner

Just sign Schneiderlin and Wilshere's frailty won't be an issue, we wouldn't be hit so hard by an injury to him due to depth and versatility.

Coq / Schneiderlin / Arteta / Flamini / Bielik
Ramsey / Cazorla / Wilshere / Schneiderlin / Chambo

ultimatewarrior

Why would we spend over 25 million to park a player on the bench? We needed Schneiderlin before Coquelin emerged, we no longer need him because well, Coquelin emerged.

Claudius

We needed Schniederlin and Pogba before Coquelin emerged. The rise of Coq means we need only one midfield beast. Schniederlin is attaintable. I honestly would like to see us play a lot of games with Schniederlin + Coq in midfield behind Ozil. We'd tear shit up

innervisionscm

ultimate_warrior wrote:
Why would we spend over 25 million to park a player on the bench? We needed Schneiderlin before Coquelin emerged, we no longer need him because well, Coquelin emerged.

£25m isn't that much money anymore.

Anzac

Buy Gundogan as the DLP if his release clause is 16m,
and put the 10m towards Kondogbia.
I'm happy to let the rest fight over Schneiderlin & Pogba @ 25m & 50m whilst we secure 2 quality players & save 40m to be spent on a forward.

innervisionscm

I think Gundogan's a better fit for us too. Fitness is still a question though.

Rex

I think Gündogan is a poor fit for us for one reason; he has always had a more defensive minded player alongside him. That basically means that we would buy Gündogan to take Ramsey's place in the team, and that is just not on for me. I think Ramsey is a better player than Gündogan to start with, and I feel we have other players in the squad already who can perform that role to a high enough standard in Cazorla, Wilshere and Arteta to take the most obvious candidates. We need an alternative to Coquelin, and that player is certainly not Gündogan.

Tactics

Rex wrote:
I think Gündogan is a poor fit for us for one reason; he has always had a more defensive minded player alongside him. That basically means that we would buy Gündogan to take Ramsey's place in the team, and that is just not on for me. I think Ramsey is a better player than Gündogan to start with, and I feel we have other players in the squad already who can perform that role to a high enough standard in Cazorla, Wilshere and Arteta to take the most obvious candidates. We need an alternative to Coquelin, and that player is certainly not Gündogan.

That is not true through, his partnership with Sahin (who is no way a defensive minded player) for example played a huge role in getting Dortmund out of the mess they were in. Sahin picked up an injury, so they are currently playing Kehl or Bender next to him (he is still the one primarily being tasked with picking the ball from the back 4 and distributing it, Bender or Kehl don't sit behind him). It could all be coincidence but they haven't been as good since Sahin's injury. They outplayed Juve for example in Turin with Sahin-Gundogan (should have won that game IMO) but easily got beaten at home few weeks later with another CM partnership.

Only at Arsenal (or in the PL ) do fans buy the myth that 2 CMs can't form a successful partnership. Suggest that Madrid trio(Kroos-Modric-James) for example and you'll be told it won't work because none of them is a DM, and that is a trio that has got the better of every single midfield they have faced this season.

Gundogan is a very versatile strategist or thinker like Arteta, he is capable of playing in every single position in midfield (just like Arteta could in his younger years). However he's more Cazorla with the ball at his feet, can ping it around with both feet at ease. Don't under-estimate the value of having a 2 footed ball distributor in CM, unlike 1 footed players, he doesn't have the natural bias of mostly switching play to his stronger side. He's a truly gifted footballer.

The way I see it; Coquelin is a specialist, therefore we don't need another specialist for that role. We should go for versatile players that can play both with and without Coquelin and Gundogan fits the bill IMO.

Ramsey next to Coquelin is not the way forward IMO. We need a conductor alongside the Frenchman and that is not Ramsey's game.

Ray

I think we need someone who attacks the space like Vieira used to in central midfield, who's also capable of tracking back, which is Ramsey's weakness atm, that can be worked on.

Anzac

Rex wrote:
I think Gündogan is a poor fit for us for one reason; he has always had a more defensive minded player alongside him. That basically means that we would buy Gündogan to take Ramsey's place in the team, and that is just not on for me. I think Ramsey is a better player than Gündogan to start with, and I feel we have other players in the squad already who can perform that role to a high enough standard in Cazorla, Wilshere and Arteta to take the most obvious candidates. We need an alternative to Coquelin, and that player is certainly not Gündogan.

Only if you consider Rambo as DLP rather than B2B.
Essentially I'd use Gundogan to essentially replace Arteta as DLP from behind the line, or Cazorla's role as DLP from CM ahead of Coquelin.

If Rambo is to be the DLP then I'd buy Kondogbia to replace him at B2B & Aranguiz to cover for Coquelin as CM ball winner or even as an option at DLP.

Rex

I consider Ramsey our best central mid by a street, and I'd have him in there every time he is fit. I also think he is a better player than Gundogan, and I feel we have good enough options there too. I also don't think, or would want, Gundogan as an option for Coquelin, because I don't think he is good enough defensively. On top of all that there are question marks over his ability to stay fit. To sum it all up, my view is that adding Gundogan to our squad wouldn't address what I feel is lacking in our midfield, and I wouldn't have him as a starter.

Anzac

Rex wrote:
I consider Ramsey our best central mid by a street, and I'd have him in there every time he is fit. I also think he is a better player than Gundogan, and I feel we have good enough options there too. I also don't think, or would want, Gundogan as an option for Coquelin, because I don't think he is good enough defensively. On top of all that there are question marks over his ability to stay fit. To sum it all up, my view is that adding Gundogan to our squad wouldn't address what I feel is lacking in our midfield, and I wouldn't have him as a starter.

What about an inverted midfield with Gundogan as DLP behind Rambo as B2B & Coquelin as Ball Winner?

For mind Coqulein's impact is more do to with his capabilities as Ball WInner rather than his position at DM,
and for me it's been the lack of the ability to win possession in midfield that's been the issue since Flamini left in 2008.

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