The YouTube Thread: Page 25 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

The YouTube Thread

Qwiss

His managerial ability is overrated anyway. He's a good CL manager, bit like Rafa but apart from that nothing he's done has impressed me much. The leagues he won didn't require much in terms of management.

Rex

Caligula wrote:
Ferguson has actually done a really good job of rotating players, making sure that guys like Park, Nani and Giggs are rested going into the end of the season. People don't really notice it because he is not prone to wholesale changes, but he's constantly rotating the players, and generally managing to maintain a high level of performance. One feels that there is competition for places at United.

Man U don´t really have a first XI do they? And yes, Fungus manages his squad much better than Wenger.

Claudius

No, they don't. I once asked people to name United's first 11. Nobody answered on this forum. I assume that was not because it was an uninteresting question, but because forum members were baffled and bemused.

Captain

They have a constant back five and Rooney and Valencia always play. Their rotation comes mostly from injury and players being old.

goon

Eh, teams who have first elevens you can name are generally always better. When you can't, it means players are not good enough to hold down a starting spot. 2-3 years ago you could have easily named United's starting XI, and it was much, much better than it is now.

Claudius

Nah, Oftgoon. it's a function of how much money the team has and how it chooses to use that money. You can pretty much name a Barca first eleven, but you probably couldn't do the same with Madrid. You can name ours, but not United'. It's managerial choice. You could give Benitez the Barca squad and he'll find ways to move players in and out every week in contrast to Guardiola's consistent selection

goon

It has nothing to do with money. Even a team like City can have a first XI. Chelsea had one of the strongers squads you could ever name a few years ago with massive quality in depth and yet even then you could have named their first choice XI through certain periods.

You can name most of the Madrid and United side, the few who get rotated are the ones who are either old, not particularly good or inconsistant.

Claudius

Fair points.
I just want two more superstars. Fix the front end of the team, and all of sudden it's not such a train smash when someone like Eboue or Rosicky comes on because the stars can neutralize them.

Tam

If you asked Ferguson he would tell you he has what he would consider his first 11, it's just that the players aren't always capable of playing. Even allowing for his changes in the bigger games, I'm sure he would pick you a different first 11 for when he makes the changes in tactics/personnel.

Rex

Ferguson picks his team keeping in mind who they are facing. That is why he always plays Park and Fletcher against us but never Berbatov for example. First time in a while that Ferguson deviated from his formula when we beat them the other week! He won´t play Rooney behind a striker next time, that´s for sure...

A lot less arrogant approach, and seems to work better, than what Wenger is doing IMO.

est

Ferguson is more flexible in his team selection because he lacks world class quality. Do you think he'd rotate Ronaldo with Nani, Park or Valencia if he was still there? No, he'd always play him. Just like he never drops Rooney to play Berbatov with Hernandez for example.

Alas, it also shows his managerial quality. Even when he rotates or is forced to play lesser players, he mostly gets his team to perform on a close enough level, whereas Arsene's rotation often results in poor performances.

Rex

Who are these world class players we have that are undroppable?! This whole conversation came about when comparing how the two managers have used their wingers this season. None that we have are undroppable IMO.

Fungus didn´t play Rooney in the CL semi final return leg for example. He pretty much sent out a reserve team with a few starters, and they just killed Schalke. Would anyone here bet a mixed team from us could do that? In a pressure game like that?

He didn´t exactly play a strong side against us in the FA Cup either... Wenger can´t seem to get "our game" working if he doesn´t play all his guns. Even when he does play them, "our game" rarely works very well. Fungus can have a number of players coming in, and they perform. Are their players much better than ours, or is this about something else? I think it is about something else.

Burnwinter

It's been said before of course. I'm just waiting for Anzac to pop in and point out that Ferguson's rotation policy is assisted by pursuing tactics that rely less heavily on player intelligence and clearly define the role and responsibilities of each position.

You could tell a lot of stories about Ferguson.

You could say, for example, that the story of this season is that he got fucking lucky signing Hernandez.

goon

Humble Rex wrote:
Who are these world class players we have that are undroppable?! This whole conversation came about when comparing how the two managers have used their wingers this season. None that we have are undroppable IMO.

This conversation came about because Ferguson was getting praised for not having a first XI, at which point I argued not having a first XI is not a good thing. It has nothing to do with us.

And yes, I don't think anyone in our squad is of undroppable quality except for Robin, Cesc and Vermaelen. Though Nasri and Jack are pretty close.

Captain

😆

If they had Cesc and Song, they would both play every game possible, then their famed rotation would involve a whole two positions; what est said is true.

Claudius

Captain, if it's the case that his team is not good enough, then he has done a great job managing those inadequate players, rotating them and still getting top performances on his way to a league title. We also have gaps in our first team, but have been less successful getting a pulse from our scrubs.

Captain

Who said his team isn't good enough?

Ferguson invariably plays his best players possible, as I outlined above. Rooney, for example was serving shit on a stick for how long and he still kept playing him. Valencia would never have been dropped if he didn't pick up an injury. Rio walks into the team as soon as he is fit enough to last 45mins. and so on.

The fact that his central midfield options are close in quality doesn't change that.

Claudius

He used 19 players over his last two games and left with two good victories. Let's see us try that

Captain

And trust me, he hasn't been getting top performances from his midfielders all season.

Captain

Caligula wrote:
He used 19 players over his last two games and left with two good victories. Let's see us try that

Are you seriously trying to include a dead-rubber champions league home tie?

« Previous Page Next Page »