The YouTube Thread: Page 12 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

The YouTube Thread

goon

Haha, was it outlaw who suggested Denilson was slightly better on the ball? 😃

Jack is fantastic. What is scary is that you can see him improving with every month that goes by.

Ricky1985

Quite a few have said that it's Wilshere's dribbling ability that separates him from Denilson with the ball. I have always argued that Wlshere is an incredible passer of the ball, in terms of his range, weight and timing, I think it's a very special quality that he has.

His dribbling ability added to that is what makes him so potentially incredible.

Armor

Ricky1985 wrote:
Great performance from Jack. Should be a big contender for the team of the season right? Which got me wondering about whether or not Cesc got in the PFA team at the end of any of his fist few seasons?

He got in the PFA team last season and 07/08. I think he got in a UEFA team of the year in 06 iirc.

Ricky1985

Cesc didn't get in in 04/05, 05/06, or 06/07?

Armor

Don't think so. Just the 2 as far as i know.

goon

He was never going to get in ahead of the likes of Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Essien etc, considering how poor we were in the latter two seasons.

Doubt Jack will get in this year either to be honest.

Ricky1985

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFA_Team_of_the_Year

Was just looking at the list, which starts in 1990. Some absolutely ridiculous selections.

In our '98 Double winning season, no Seaman, Dixon, Adams, Bould, Winterburn, Petit, Vieira, Parlour, Overmars, Anelka, or Ian Wright - only Bergkamp, er....Wtf?

In our '02 Double winning season, no Seaman, Dixon, Adams, Campbell, Keown, Cole, Vieira, Bergkamp - or Ljungberg. I mean come on, that was Freddie's season.

Interestingly Paul Scholes has only ever got in twice, and the first time wasn't until 2003. Obviously not as highly rated by his fellow pros as we're led to believe.

goon

Bear in mind it's voted for around this time of the season Ricky, so in 98 United were running away with it when the votes came in. United only have one player when they won the league in 2003 for similar reasons.

Ricky1985

Yep, was going to say that in my last post, because it has always been my understanding that it's voted for in Jan/Feb, but then I read this and it confused me;

The shortlist is compiled by the members of the Professional Footballers' Association (the PFA) in January, and then the winners are voted for by the other players in the league.

It sounds like the shortlist is compiled January, and then voting is done later on. Surely it would make sense to do the voting as near to the end as season as possible?

Claudius

it's a ridiculous process. Someone like Bale who made a lot of noise in the first half of the season will get on the team of the season even if he doesn't kick another ball for the rest of the season. A man like van Persie who is finding form late in the season, on the other hand, has little chance.

Ricky1985

I agree mate, and although Otfgoon gives the reason why we see some ridiculous selections, the fact that it's done that way in the first place, shows what a joke the thing is.

Klaus

Ricky1985 wrote:
Also, Klaus, have your changed your mind about Wilshere's passing ability now?

Say what? :hmm:

You're confusing me with outlaw I think.

Ricky1985

Didn't we have that long winded discussion just before the Man United game about the difference between Jack and Denilson? I'm sure Jack's passing ability was a big part of it.

Confuse you with Outlaw? I wouldn't do that to you mate. 😆

Klaus

😆

Yeah, we might have, come think of it. I never said anything about his ability though! I'm fully aware of just how good he is. I might have said something about his distribution not being that of a deeplying playmaker at the time. And it wasn't really. If you look at the early part of the season his game was based much more on quick movement off the ball, but he's grown more comfortable lately. I think the goals will start to come soon too. Next season, perhaps, or the one after that. There was this moment against Wolves where he dribbled into the area and could have taken a shot that most likely would have ended up in goal, but instead he passed it to Cesc (I think) who hit it with the outside of the boot and missed. Things like that are rooted in confidence more than anyting else, just like deciding whether or not to ping a difficult fifty yard pass to someone in order to set up a counter.

Ricky1985

I'm 99% sure you said Jack didn't have that sort of range in his locker, and that his creative/incisive passing wasn't his strong point, and what separated him from Denilson wasn't his passing, but rather his dribbling ability, which opened the game up for him. I argued at the time that his passing was perhaps his greatest ability, the range, the weight, the timing, all out of this world, and it was just a matter of time before we saw it in the first-team. Thankfully I was right.

It's the same with his goal scoring, it's not if, it's definitely when. He has the sort of composure in front of goal you can't give to someone, and I don't think it will take long to rectify itself either. Certainly not as long as it took Cesc would be my guess, and it took him what nearly 3 full seasons in the first-team to really find his scoring boots?

Klaus

Ricky1985 wrote:
I'm 99% sure you said Jack didn't have that sort of range in his locker, and that his creative/incisive passing wasn't his strong point

I'm 99% sure I didn't (and if I really did I take it back immediately). That's why I asked if you confused me with outlaw, because he said something to that effect on Mania. I recall pointing out at the time that Jack's game that far had been based more around quick passing and movement off the ball (like a central mid) than on distribution and range (like a deeplying playmaker), but I'm pretty sure I've never made a claim like the bolded one - least of all concerning Wilshere. We need to find that thread and settle this. 😉

Ricky1985

By range, I mean his passing range, not the range of his ability. And I just looked through the page, and you didn't really mention his passing range, but you did say "Jack's distribution isn't particularly impressive in itself" - which at the time I just couldn't fathom. I have felt since I first started watching Jack that his passing ability knows no boundaries, his greatest asset. The awareness, vision and ability to actually execute was all there, it just took a little while to come out consistently in the first-team. We'll start to see more and more of his game come out over time, too.

Anyway, it's all there, if you want to read it:

http://www.onemoreinthetolly.com/Thread-Manchester-United-vs-Arsenal-Monday-13th-December?page=2

Klaus

ricky: Ah. Yeah, that's more like it. I was talking about the way he was playing and not his ability in that context. Looking through the thread I even wrote "Jack's ability is great, no doubt about it, but his passing isn't focused on 'greatness' in a central role." in a subsequent post, and that he should be used as a replacement for Cesc whenever he's missing rather than as a fold for someone like Rosicky. A lot of Wilshere's increased importance within the team has to do with him playing a less restrained game than he did to begin with. Between august and early december you rarely saw him play the kind of passes he's done in the last two months.

Burnwinter

Seen this a few times now:

flobaba

French commentators are more excited about our victory than the English commentators. Lol.

The itv commentary video Klaus posted was particularly irritating. Did those idiots actually say "a Barcelona goal from Arsenal!". Pissed me off big time. It's like these fools only just started watching football in the last five years.

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