what's with the dzeko fascination? mediocre stint at city and would be expensive. not to mention, he is similar in style to giroud and not much better. huge amount of money for a minuscule upgrade on giroud; a ridiculous waste of money.
Suarez: the great moral dilemma of our time
i don't get it either. i didn't like him in germany and i haven't seen anything at city to change my mind.
R.e. Suarez cost: The market has changed. £40Mil-£50Mil is nothing compared to ten years ago. Look at the prices being banded about for Bale. If we're to compete we should be looking to sign a top calibre player every couple of years or so. And they are going to cost this kind of money.
Clearly there are plenty of players that we could have or still can bid for, but the club have first choice targets who they are pursuing.
I don't really see what our squad strategy is in bidding for Suarez and Bender or even signing Sanogo but it's Wenger's creation so we'll see how any eventual signings fit in.
The market has changed on the high end, although there seems to be a bit of normalcy for players of lesser quality. But I do think it's fair to say that if we do want to make a run at top-shelf players, we're going to have to adjust to this new reality.
Bidding £40m on a player isn't adjusting to this new reality?
I understand the criticism of our Suarez chase from a moral standpoint, which i have also taken.
I just don't get the incognizance of it while criticizing Arsenal's transfer strategy this summer.
Captain wrote:Bidding £40m on a player isn't adjusting to this new reality?
Not this season. It's a seller's market
Especially when you consider the fact that Liverpool wants our CL spot.
Even then it would be the 10th highest transfer fee paid in history.
We will be amongst the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester City, Chelsea, PSG and Monaco.
Xcdude24 wrote:Captain wrote:Bidding £40m on a player isn't adjusting to this new reality?
Not this season. It's a seller's market
Especially when you consider the fact that Liverpool wants our CL spot.
It would be the fourth highest transfer fee paid this window, the other three being Neymar's strange deal and two contract buy outs.
Is it any surprise then that four of the ten highest fees have come this season?
Captain wrote:Xcdude24 wrote:Not this season. It's a seller's market
Especially when you consider the fact that Liverpool wants our CL spot.
It would be the fourth highest transfer fee paid this window, the other three being Neymar's strange deal and two contract buy outs.
You should know by now that players coming out of English clubs will always have inflated price tags. And like I said, Liverpool will charge us more because we're a competitor.
Do I think he's actually worth 40m? Not even close, but I'm just saying that's just the way the market is this season.
I agree to the extent that bidding £100m for Messi wouldn't make you ambitious - just stupid.
But whatever way you look at it, £40m is a solid bid for Suarez. If Liverpool think its laughable lets see what he eventually goes for - because if they price him out of a move, he seems like the kind of psychopath that would make them regret it.
Xcdude24 wrote:Is it any surprise then that four of the ten highest fees have come this season?
No, exceptional events with particular excellent, world class players on the move at the same time and emergence of two more billionaire bankrolled clubs. Fees higher than this have been paid. Top 3 highest transfers in history happened in the same summer if i am not wrong -2009. Price shifts didn't happen then. Markets weren't seller's markets as such then, nor they are now. PSG activated a release clause that existed and Monaco just paid what it took to get Falcao whilst also giving him a $ 18 Million salary reportedly. Athletico, especially with Spanish Football's troubles weren't going to refuse that offer. Falcao is also an exceptional striker who has been extremely instrumental in Athletico's progress.
Kel Varnsen wrote:what's with the dzeko fascination? mediocre stint at city and would be expensive. not to mention, he is similar in style to giroud and not much better. huge amount of money for a minuscule upgrade on giroud; a ridiculous waste of money.
He's far better than Giroud. 14 premier league goals in 16 starts in each of the last 2 seasons. He'd bang 20 league goals a season for us, no doubt.
Xcdude24 wrote:Captain wrote:It would be the fourth highest transfer fee paid this window, the other three being Neymar's strange deal and two contract buy outs.
You should know by now that players coming out of English clubs will always have inflated price tags. And like I said, Liverpool will charge us more because we're a competitor.
Do I think he's actually worth 40m? Not even close, but I'm just saying that's just the way the market is this season.
Well, it clearly isn't the way the market is because nobody has moved for much more. Two contracts have been bought out because that was the only way to make the deal and Neymar's move is still in question and under investigation.
The market really hasn't dictated anything either way so far. (Not that there is much of a market in football anyway, but that's another discussion)
Timothy wrote:Kel Varnsen wrote:what's with the dzeko fascination? mediocre stint at city and would be expensive. not to mention, he is similar in style to giroud and not much better. huge amount of money for a minuscule upgrade on giroud; a ridiculous waste of money.
He's far better than Giroud. 14 premier league goals in 16 starts in each of the last 2 seasons. He'd bang 20 league goals a season for us, no doubt.
giroud had 17 goals in 47 appearances last season; dzeko had 15 goals in 43 appearances. yes, "far better" indeed...
from transfermarkt in the premiership:
giroud 11 goals in 2333 minutes.
dzeko 14 goals in 1821 minutes.
in champions league:
giroud 2 goals in 385 minutes.
dzeko 1 goal in 387 minutes.
in the fa cup:
giroud 2 goals in 360 minutes.
dzeko 0 goals in 260 minutes.
in total:
giroud 15 goals in 3078 minutes.
dzeko 15 goals in 2468 minutes.
Kel Varnsen wrote:Timothy wrote:He's far better than Giroud. 14 premier league goals in 16 starts in each of the last 2 seasons. He'd bang 20 league goals a season for us, no doubt.
giroud had 17 goals in 47 appearances last season; dzeko had 15 goals in 43 appearances. yes, "far better" indeed...
from transfermarkt in the premiership:
giroud 11 goals in 2333 minutes.
dzeko 14 goals in 1821 minutes.
Yep, as I said, far better. One scores a league goal every game and a half, the other a goal every 2 and a half games. Clear and massive difference, thanks for demonstrating my point for me. Ta. :-)
Timothy wrote:Kel Varnsen wrote:giroud had 17 goals in 47 appearances last season; dzeko had 15 goals in 43 appearances. yes, "far better" indeed...
from transfermarkt in the premiership:
giroud 11 goals in 2333 minutes.
dzeko 14 goals in 1821 minutes.Yep, as I said, far better. One scores a league goal every game and a half, the other a goal every 2 and a half games. Clear and massive difference, thanks for demonstrating my point for me. Ta. :-)
yes, the fa cup and champions league don't matter.
as i said, dzeko is slightly better than giroud. considering this was giroud's first season in england and dzeko's third, i'd say the numbers aren't that different. signing dzeko would be pointless and only something an idiot would propose.
Dzeko had a better chance conversion rate than your boy Suarez last season and a much better chance conversion rate than Giroud who is one of the worst finishers in the league stastically.
To some idiots, that may be a slight improvement, to others it may represent significantly more points on the board. Ho-hum.
As I said, Dzeko is a lot better than Giroud. The vast majority of people would agree and the stats show it too.
Anyone that thinks otherwise sucks donkey cock. That is all.
never mind. can't be bothered.
Glad you saw the error of your ways.
oh don't worry, i still think that anyone who rates dzeko is clueless.
If we're talking about picking up strikers battling for game time I'd prefer Lukaku, Hernandez or Ba here over Dzeko
Not Hernandez or Ba, but Lukaku is dynamite and about as likely to come as Dzeko...
Ewwww....donkeys Kel? Really?
Kel Varnsen wrote:oh don't worry, i still think that anyone who rates dzeko is clueless.
Dzeko is a 2nd tier striker for me, can't understand why he's so highly rated on here. I don't even think he's particularly good with his back to goal, much better with the ball at his feet facing goal with load of space infront of him. Think he thrives best in a counter attacking team. Giroud is better in a possession based team IMO.
The only top tier strikers on the market are Suarez and Rooney IMO. We should target those 2 and don't bother with the rest.
Captain wrote:Not Hernandez or Ba, but Lukaku is dynamite and about as likely to come as Dzeko...
Less likely. Can't imagine that even this odd new nice Wenger loving Jose 
would sell Lukaku to us.
Suarez is not a £50m player and if we spend that, it will be a massive overvaluation. Sometimes that's necessary but we'll see.
So my prediction is starting to come true (Link). Tomorrows papers claiming there is no release clause in Suarez' contract and since our £40m+1 bid was provocative they have no intrest in dealing with us any further. Now that Higuain is gone and Real has enough money to launch a bid everything will fall into place. Im 100% sure we didnt bid £40m+1 without knowing for sure about the existance of the clause or not. We did it to get things moving in the market (or to keep up a smokescreen) and to send some positive signals to the fans about trying hard while fully knowing this bid doesnt oblige us to do anything.
Tin hat?
marv3llous wrote:So my prediction is starting to come true (Link). Tomorrows papers claiming there is no release clause in Suarez' contract and since our £40m+1 bid was provocative they have no intrest in dealing with us any further. Now that Higuain is gone and Real has enough money to launch a bid everything will fall into place. Im 100% sure we didnt bid £40m+1 without knowing for sure about the existance of the clause or not. We did it to get things moving in the market (or to keep up a smokescreen) and to send some positive signals to the fans about trying hard while fully knowing this bid doesnt oblige us to do anything.
So duping the fans is the aim of the game this transfer window?
It's all some elaborate game?
It's going to be spectacularly unsucessful if that was their intention - given that they will have angered fans who hate Suarez by bidding for him in the first place and now, if they back off, they will anger fans who wanted him to be signed.
I suppose if you're a fan of conspiracy theories that don't require any real proof, and if you think that Wenger and Co are just fooling around with the business of managing the team then you're likely to believe that bidding for Suarez was not a realistic attempt at actually signing him.
Yes, i refuse to believe we are after him and didnt know what we were doing with that supposed bid. His every fibre is against what we value over here and there is no way Wenger will make such a drastic u-turn in his approach. As i said it was most likely some kind of response or a smokescreen.
You will see i was right 
marv3llous wrote:Yes, i refuse to believe we are after him and didnt know what we were doing with that supposed bid. His every fibre is against what we value over here and there is no way Wenger will make such a drastic u-turn in his approach. As i said it was most likely some kind of response or a smokescreen.
You will see i was right
or maybe you are just crazy person
We're in a desert of the soul. A few mirages are bound to rise up before us. 
I honestly think we'll sign him.
But I thought that about Fellaini, Higuain, and Jovetic 
Don't buy into Marv's theory though.
y va marquer wrote:I suppose if you're a fan of conspiracy theories that don't require any real proof, and if you think that Wenger and Co are just fooling around with the business of managing the team then you're likely to believe that bidding for Suarez was not a realistic attempt at actually signing him.
Well if it looks like bullshit and smells like bullshit and it feels like bullshit, then it's a fair bet.......
Marv's theory doesn't make any sense does it? With Liverpool relatively miffed about our behaviour, you'd hope we're not just fucking them around - got to be a serious bid.
At the same time, though, we surely must have a plan B, even if it's just strengthening other areas considerably and persisting with Giroud, Walcott, Podolski and Cazorla as our main options for the front three.