Kroenke/Gazidis/Wenger out!: Page 268 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Kroenke/Gazidis/Wenger out!

kamikaze

you guys are right, what a dick for choosing to be injured through much of his career. don't even get me started on ramsey. so selfish of him to get his leg broken and weaken our midfield...

a footballer's prime is roughly ages 24-28, and van persie spent those years at arsenal. if you look at it objectively, his decision was totally reasonable. arsenal did nothing over the previous 7 yrs to lead him to believe that we'd have any chance of winning anything before his career was up.

so tell me this, why would van persie stay? i'm supposed to despite this guy for being eminently reasonable? you guys are hypocrites, talking shit about gazidis/wenger killing this club's chances for silverware, and then criticising a player who left because he saw it the same way and realised he was getting old and wouldn't have many chances left.

as far as i'm concerned, i can't blame henry, fabregas or van persie for leaving. we gave them no reason to stay - sentimentality isn't a good enough reason.

Burnwinter

All I've said is that by summer 2012, Van Persie had made his mind up to go. Maybe even a bit before that he'd decided, or at least strongly considered that he'd use his good form towards the end of his contract to lever himself out of the club.

And before that he was regularly injured and half of us advocated scrapping him.

Pretty much the only way we could've held onto him would've been by being bigger and better than United, City and Chelsea by 2012. Which would've required something like a title win in 2008 and then kicking on with renewed investment - and I think all of us talking here probably feel the efforts by the club in that regard were seriously inadequate.

The seeds of Van Persie's departure were sown years ago.

As for whether or not he's a dick, well, trying to engineer public perceptions of a career move with that sort of open letter is pretty dickish. Acting out of self-interest was arguably reasonable - although he did choose to go to United - but the hypocritical attempt to grab the moral high ground was disrespectful to the fans.

Jed

kamikaze wrote:
you guys are right, what a dick for choosing to be injured through much of his career. don't even get me started on ramsey. so selfish of him to get his leg broken and weaken our midfield...

a footballer's prime is roughly ages 24-28, and van persie spent those years at arsenal. if you look at it objectively, his decision was totally reasonable. arsenal did nothing over the previous 7 yrs to lead him to believe that we'd have any chance of winning anything before his career was up.

so tell me this, why would van persie stay? i'm supposed to despite this guy for being eminently reasonable? you guys are hypocrites, talking shit about gazidis/wenger killing this club's chances for silverware, and then criticising a player who left because he saw it the same way and realised he was getting old and wouldn't have many chances left.

as far as i'm concerned, i can't blame henry, fabregas or van persie for leaving. we gave them no reason to stay - sentimentality isn't a good enough reason.

I don't have a problem with van Persie deciding to leave us. I have a HUGE problem with him deciding to leave us and join them.

invisibleman18

Exactly. Noone has said he shouldn't have decided to leave. The club should have either held him to his contract or sold him to someone else. As Mourinho said with Ba the other day, you don't strengthen your rivals.

Biggus

Well what I'm saying is how things were let slide so bad, Wenger has to be held to account just like he wasn't for the 8-2.

Jed wrote:
I don't have a problem with van Persie deciding to leave us. I have a HUGE problem with him deciding to leave us and join them.

Exactly- And to make matters worse he wasn't backed into a corner or anything, City offered him more money but choose them- Utter cunt.

Burnwinter

I'm a pragmatist.

Wenger should go but if he turns it around and wins a major trophy at any stage, I'll start to back him again, history be forgotten. I think even you'd be the same Biggus - although the scenario's probably more difficult for you to imagine.

Even now I don't think you can realistically sack a manager who has more or less the best record in the league in the last six months.

invisibleman18

Biggus wrote:
Well what I'm saying is how things were let slide so bad, Wenger has to be held to account just like he wasn't for the 8-2.

Didn't you hear Biggs? "One of the main judgments you can have about a manager is how well he does with his team." Judge him on this season. 😉

Biggus

😆

Burnwinter wrote:
I'm a pragmatist.

Wenger should go but if he turns it around and wins a major trophy at any stage, I'll start to back him again, history be forgotten. I think even you'd be the same Biggus - although the scenario's probably more difficult for you to imagine.

Thats the difference between you and the proud citizens of Biglosia Burnsy, we're pragmatists too, we don't believe Wenger will ever win another major trophy thats why we want him gone.

Rex

Speaking of oneself in third person singular makes one a bit of a fucktard, but speaking of oneself in third person plural just makes one a schizophrenic weirdo. 🙂

Biggus

(Sigh) Do you want to explain to this Rudolf rooting Scando what Biglosia is Burnsy?

Bold Tone

Jed wrote:
kamikaze wrote:
you guys are right, what a dick for choosing to be injured through much of his career. don't even get me started on ramsey. so selfish of him to get his leg broken and weaken our midfield...

a footballer's prime is roughly ages 24-28, and van persie spent those years at arsenal. if you look at it objectively, his decision was totally reasonable. arsenal did nothing over the previous 7 yrs to lead him to believe that we'd have any chance of winning anything before his career was up.

so tell me this, why would van persie stay? i'm supposed to despite this guy for being eminently reasonable? you guys are hypocrites, talking shit about gazidis/wenger killing this club's chances for silverware, and then criticising a player who left because he saw it the same way and realised he was getting old and wouldn't have many chances left.

as far as i'm concerned, i can't blame henry, fabregas or van persie for leaving. we gave them no reason to stay - sentimentality isn't a good enough reason.

I don't have a problem with van Persie deciding to leave us. I have a HUGE problem with him deciding to leave us and join them.

I agree with almost everyone as none of your opinions are 100% right/wrong.
We all know it depends whether you are looking at this from Arsenal's point of view, Arsenal fan's point of view, VP's point of view or VP's descendants' points of view.
At this point in time, we think he is a cunt for joining them yet he has achieved his goal of winning the title at the cost of losing the respect of Arsenal fans.
Unless you believe we could have beaten man $hity/scum united/roubleski at the time, and Wenger failed to convince him this was the case, then, he will feel he made the correct decision for himself.
You can repeatedly call him a selfish cunt but he doesn't care as he never has to live with you but he would have to live with his regrets for the rest of his life.

Burnwinter

Biggus wrote:
(Sigh) Do you want to explain to this Rudolf rooting Scando what Biglosia is Burnsy?

No. I prefer not to waste my time on the officious fools of this earth, Biggsy.

I have a hard enough time listening to the shit I spout myself. 😉

Biggus

Bold Tone wrote:
You can repeatedly call him a selfish cunt but he doesn't care as he never has to live with you but he would have to live with his regrets for the rest of his life.

I don't care what he cares about or has to live with, he's a cunt and I will laugh when he gets injured.

goon

He's a cunt. Simple.

Let's move on.

evoh

kamikaze wrote:
you guys are right, what a dick for choosing to be injured through much of his career. don't even get me started on ramsey. so selfish of him to get his leg broken and weaken our midfield...

a footballer's prime is roughly ages 24-28, and van persie spent those years at arsenal. if you look at it objectively, his decision was totally reasonable. arsenal did nothing over the previous 7 yrs to lead him to believe that we'd have any chance of winning anything before his career was up.

so tell me this, why would van persie stay? i'm supposed to despite this guy for being eminently reasonable? you guys are hypocrites, talking shit about gazidis/wenger killing this club's chances for silverware, and then criticising a player who left because he saw it the same way and realised he was getting old and wouldn't have many chances left.

as far as i'm concerned, i can't blame henry, fabregas or van persie for leaving. we gave them no reason to stay - sentimentality isn't a good enough reason.

But he spent most of those "prime years" on the injury table, not contributing to arsenal's title challenges or lack of them, its not like he has grafted year after year only to see his spoils result in naff all. Again arsenal may not have looked the most attractive proposal based on results however for a number of years he was asked to be the main man and failed to do anything of real not until after christmas 2010.

Was being injured his fault? No of course not, however it means he can't call out the club as if we pushed on he would have been out the door or doing a chamakh on the bench whilst going off on holland duty and getting injured again and again. Its all fair to say we aren't ready to offer him the sort of serious challenge towards the end of his career, however our team outside of the striking dept looks a match for Moyes' shit united team so he hasn't upgraded long term.

He left after ₁₆ months of top level performance in which we mounted a decent title challenge, almost nudged Barca (if not for him perhaps) in the CL, then degraded by failing to replace two key players who it seems have now been replaced. He says we lack ambition but he seemed to have lost faith the summer of 2011 and his mind was made up then. I expect the money at united + the commercial deals that come with it surely help when you are his age as well.

Claudius

Kamikaze, people are not criticizing van Persie for leaving. If I had his talent as well and was an Arsenal player, I would have left. What angers the fans is
1 - making his position untenable with very public statements
2 - going to them
People don't sit here complaining about Vieira, Henry or even Fabregas. All left. All won important things. This guy though. F*ck him.

JazzG

Klaus wrote:
Seriously, van Persie can fuck the fuck off. His 'prime' in an Arsenal shirt lasted for one and a half season, which wasn't nearly enough to compensate for the ridiculous amount of injuries he had or justify the sea of opportunities that Wenger gave him. Any other club and he would've been out on his ass and back in Holland by the time he turned 26. That fucking traitor. He was dead the moment he released his little statement. The rest was just a question of whether to cash in or put him in the stands for five months until Fifa absolved him from his contract. I would have been fine with either or really, but letting that fucking mong put on an Arsenal jersey again in any official capacity? You gotta be kiddidng.

Most players are knobs mate, I have come to that conclusion. Vieira ripped us in public a few times and he went out and did the business for us. We should of made RvP see his contract out, we might of lost out on a transfer fee but he would of still played well for us because he would of been chasing his big money move. Even if we made him sit on the bench it would of been the right thing to do. Would of sent out a big warning to clubs and players/agents who think we can be messed around. Sometimes principle is more important than money

Claudius

the clubs would have been warned and then we would have lost the player for nothing
quite possibly, that would have meant we don't have the bravery this season to go after Ozil. who knows?

evoh

No one would care if van Persie had seemingly contributed to anything but 1 4th place finish. Outside of that he did nothing for the club as opposed to what Arsenal has done for him.

Vieira slagged off the club for lacking resources and ambition but at least he had done the double, twice I think by that point. Players who leave without a meaningful contribution will always get a kick in the bollocks from almost all fans, while those who have done the business are welcomed back into the fold, at least in the fan's eyes. With the stand out being that cunt Ashley who will always be hated

Henry, Vieira, Brady all left the club but put in the work beforehand.

Players like Nasri and van Persie did the business for 6-16 months, hardly anytime compared to their years at the club.

Bold Tone

JazzG wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Seriously, van Persie can fuck the fuck off. His 'prime' in an Arsenal shirt lasted for one and a half season, which wasn't nearly enough to compensate for the ridiculous amount of injuries he had or justify the sea of opportunities that Wenger gave him. Any other club and he would've been out on his ass and back in Holland by the time he turned 26. That fucking traitor. He was dead the moment he released his little statement. The rest was just a question of whether to cash in or put him in the stands for five months until Fifa absolved him from his contract. I would have been fine with either or really, but letting that fucking mong put on an Arsenal jersey again in any official capacity? You gotta be kiddidng.

Most players are knobs mate, I have come to that conclusion. Vieira ripped us in public a few times and he went out and did the business for us. We should of made RvP see his contract out, we might of lost out on a transfer fee but he would of still played well for us because he would of been chasing his big money move. Even if we made him sit on the bench it would of been the right thing to do. Would of sent out a big warning to clubs and players/agents who think we can be messed around. Sometimes principle is more important than money

I think this is the most sensible recent post on this subject as it would have been the least worst option, (if that makes sense!), to all parties concerned especially us fans and the long term future of the club.
Also like the fact that you removed emotion from your reasoning.

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