Kroenke/Gazidis/Wenger out!: Page 168 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Kroenke/Gazidis/Wenger out!

Pepe LeFrits

You started it with post 3328, so please, stop.

Timbob

Pissing in our pockets? Not heard that one before.

Captain

Last two years have been a disaster and the six before that were clearly down to the massive cost of the stadium. Things are looking up now though.

Most important thing is to establish some continuity and not throw away the first month of the season again.

asajoseph

Personally, I think this squad, with Van Persie in it, would have competed for the title.

Iloveyouarsenewenger

It clearly would have. We finished at 73 points and Man United at 89. An eight point increase for us and an eight point decrease for Man United is something that isn't beyond the realms of possibility if Van Persie was with us, instead of them.

In any case, we'd have definitely crossed City at 78.

But, the problem is - we are not in a position to acquire a player of Van Persie's quality now. At best, we can get someone who can be world class in three years or so.

Rex

asajoseph wrote:
Personally, I think this squad, with Van Persie in it, would have competed for the title.

Put Song in there as well and I totally agree with you. I have said throughout the season that I am positive we would have been up there had we kept those two. Hurts even more to think that we actually had a really strong squad 2 weeks before the season started. Then it all fell apart. :gah:

kamikaze

i agree with you two. there's no substitute for top drawer quality in the final third. we would have finished no lower than 2nd with van persie in the side.

and that is why i started this thread - we are run by people with no footballing ambition. we are run like, well, wal-mart. eye is on nothing else but the bottom line.

Biggus

Pepe LeFrits wrote:
You started it with post 3328, so please, stop.

So this post (in the Wenger out thread mind you) is considered trolling?

Biggus wrote:
Meh too much is being made of individual players, it's a team game and the best organised and disciplined team using the best counter tactics wins.
I think this is being done to minimise Wengers responsibility for our catastrophic failure over the last 8 years.

And a one word derisory reply is not?

Pepe LeFrits

I didn't say Rex's post wasn't trolling; but he wasn't the instigator in that instance.

Biggus

I was replying to the point that people seemed to be over stressing or getting bogged down with (that star players were necessary for a team to be successful) by reminding everyone that its a team game and that balance and discipline and the tactical approach of the manager is more important.
I don't consider that instigating trolling, I do however consider a pointless provocative derisory one word snort less informative.

flobaba

Coombs

Biggus wrote:
I was replying to the point that people seemed to be over stressing or getting bogged down with (that star players were necessary for a team to be successful) by reminding everyone that its a team game and that balance and discipline and the tactical approach of the manager is more important.
I don't consider that instigating trolling, I do however consider a pointless provocative derisory one word snort less informative.

Do you think that you'd agree that winning a league over the course of a season requires balance, discipline, and an effective tactical approach as well as star players, whereas winning a cup might lean more heavily on the former?

Not only do I think that it's true, but I think it might be a reasonable compromise to make in terms of opinions on this subject. I don't think us winning the league this past season was really even a remote chance, however, I do think we'd have won it more recently if Wenger had been able to use the star players he did have more effectively. For that same reason I doubt that we'll win it again with him in charge.

Just thought that might be a more reasonable way of approaching this subject rather than "all you really need is star players" countered by "all you really need is a good manager". Seems a bit unreasonable on both fronts. It's obviously a combination of the two, and right now I'd say we're short any which way you look at it!

Pepe LeFrits

Biggus wrote:
I was replying to the point that people seemed to be over stressing or getting bogged down with (that star players were necessary for a team to be successful) by reminding everyone that its a team game and that balance and discipline and the tactical approach of the manager is more important.
I don't consider that instigating trolling, I do however consider a pointless provocative derisory one word snort less informative.

That's the first line of your post; the second is a clear jab at the motivations of other posters.

Biggus

You mean this line?

Biggus wrote:
I think this is being done to minimise Wengers responsibility for our catastrophic failure over the last 8 years.

Yeah perhaps this was a clear jab at the motivations of other posters, shocking provocation for which I must apologise, (if they're still awake).

Timbob

Coombs; nobody said "all you really need is star players".

Although Biggus did strongly imply that all you really need is a good manager.

Burnwinter

Kurtz wrote:
The thing is every star player starts out as a hidden gem.

Not every shit-encrusted lump of rock hides a rough diamond, however.

It's very, very easy to pick the four best value for money signings of the past few years and say "why didn't we sign all of those guys?" but the answer's obvious. No one knew they would be any good when they got signed!

Do you think Rayo Vallecano would've let Michu leave for £2m if they thought he'd be a goal every two games striker at Swansea in the Premier League?

Timbob

I won that argument 2 pages ago Burns. You're the Carlos Vela of debates, stroll in when its already won and score a couple of easy points.

Burnwinter

Got to keep my numbers up somehow if I want to win that new contract at Real Piojoso.

goon

To play Biggus' advocate for a second, I do think the likes of City and Chelsea have made star signings/players seem more important than they are to many fans.

If you're trying to build a team on a restricted budget you need to find players who will click as a team. The 07/08 team only really had two world class players in there, and one of them was a right back, while not a single member of the first 11 cost more than 10m. As a team however, they functioned incredibly well. I reckon Dortmund are a similar story.

I think one of our biggest problems since that side in particular is that, no only have we not signed top quality talent, but we've never at any point looked like anything that resembles a team. It's been very disjointed, and has usually looked like 11 individuals thrown in together for the first time.

dreamlord

otfgoon wrote:
... but we've never at any point looked like anything that resembles a team. It's been very disjointed, and has usually looked like 11 individuals thrown in together for the first time.

That's what happens when none of your attacking players have played with each other before 🙁

After the game at Anfield I thought Wenger had changed our playing style into a quick pass and move one, but it all went downhill slowly. We don't have a playing style at all now. Theoretically it should make us more dangerous, but practically it ends up meaning that we don't have a clue what we're doing.

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