Kroenke/Gazidis/Wenger out!: Page 167 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Kroenke/Gazidis/Wenger out!

Timbob

First sign of the apocalypse.

Klaus

Timothy wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Also: :drool:

You drool over your erection?

Don't pretend you aren't impressed.

flobaba

😆

Kurtz

Timothy wrote:
Kurtz; you really think there are 'thousands, or tens of thousands' of players who can score 18 goals a season in the Premier League?

And i can't see that this squad underachieved while we had Giroud as pretty much our only viable central striker for most of the season.

Michu,Lewandowski,Anelka,Lavezzi and even Benteke this season were all initially bought for relative peanuts. Arsenal can't go for the big blockbuster signings (not yet anyway) and thus have chosen a different path. We can't compete with Chelsea, Man City in signings, but we can definitely compete with them with youth development and signing hidden gems (see: Dortmund, Borussia).

And our squad definitely underachieved. We have international caliber strikers and mids in our squad and a tall, strong defensive line. Most of our problems are coaching. Question: If Jurgen Klopp, Ferguson, Mourinho, Heynckes etc. were coaching us, do you think we would have finished fourth? Or lost to Bradford? Or lost to Blackburn?

Timbob

5 examples of players bought by 5 different clubs in 4 different countries over a 15 year time span. What does that prove? And we do compete in youth development and signing 'hidden gems', but we can't get them all. Without the blockbuster, ready made world class signings to compliment them you're always gonna be 2 steps behind. Dortmund have created one great team that's lasted 3 years, and its now getting picked apart. Lets see how easy they find it to unearth the next Lewandowski or Kagawa.

And your second point is a nonsense. "We have international caliber strikers and mids in our squad and a tall, strong defensive line", and so does Fulham, Stoke, West Brom, Everton and every bloody team in this league. Fact is, no manager is going to win the Premier League with Giroud as his main/only striking option. He'd be what, 4th or 5th choice at City or Utd?

Kurtz

The thing is every star player starts out as a hidden gem. No one is worth £40 million at birth, or 15 years of age. Where did those players get their start? I'm just saying that the "ready-made" striker is out there, unknown, in a different league. Just like Michu. If Yaya Sanogo turns out to be the next Henry, he's ready-made and cost £500k. Its talent evaluation, and good fortune. There are more Michus than Falcaos/Cavanis. Good players don't have to be super expensive.

And we did underachieve. We threw away the cups and screwed up the PL with the same mistakes we make every season, with different players. We couldn't win the league with RVP on top form either. It wasn't because the players sucked, its because we don't defend leads, don't know how to press, and routinely sleepwalked through the first halves of games. I think our players were good enough to win a cup and challenge for the title last season. But you disagree, point taken.

Timbob

I would wager that its not just me that disagrees Kurtz. In fact an awful lot of people have made the point that coming 4th with this current squad was a good achievement. We are well short of the top end quality that Utd and City possess.

And as to your other point, I agree that good players don't have to be expensive. But everyone is looking for good players at good value, and its very competitive. There are NOT thousands of Michus. We more than hold our own in this 'value for money/hidden gem' market. Our pitiful net spend over the last 9 years aligned to always finishing 3rd or 4th in the toughest league in the world, along with consistently getting to at least the last 16 of the CL is testament to that fact.

Biggus

Meh too much is being made of individual players, it's a team game and the best organised and disciplined team using the best counter tactics wins.
I think this is being done to minimise Wengers responsibility for our catastrophic failure over the last 8 years.

Burnwinter

If it's just a case of organising and disciplining the players why is there a strong correlation between squad wages and league position? Heck why do clubs even bother signing star players and paying them a fortune at all?

Oh that's right—what you're saying isn't true. Got confused for a moment there.

Biggus

Well its because there are a lot less great managers around than great players, otherwise Man City or Chelsea would have won the title- Do you see how that works?

Burnwinter

Both Manchester City and Chelsea did win the title—right after they invested a fuckton in lots of good players. Do you see how that works?

Pepe LeFrits

Biggus wrote:
Well its because there are a lot less great managers around than great players

... and we have a better one than Man United and Man City now!

Kurtz

Maybe you're right Timothy, I don't know for sure. In basketball for example, statistics have shown that Coaches do very little in terms of garnering wins for their teams and that their main job is to play their best players. I think getting quality players marches you up the table, but past a certain point there are diminishing returns. In Arsenal's case, I think the fact we see the same mistakes again and again shows that something other than player quality is at fault. But maybe you're right, and maybe the fact that we didn't spend a lot in Wenger's glory years was an anomaly, a case of a certain coach with an asymmetrical advantage in a certain market (French players), and that now, with better scouting, that advantage is gone.

Rex

It is absolutely rubbish to think that this squad could have competed for the title. And that is regardless of the manager. We could have gone further in the domestic cups though, but I put that 90 percent down to the players. In both cup ties where we were eliminated the manager fielded a team comfortably better than the opposition.

Biggus

Nobody said anything about competing for the title, but the fact is with a manager who wasn't a deluded ideologue more concerned with his own personal project and making a massive profit for the owners than winning trophies we would have won something over the last what will be 9 years, he's treated us supporters with contempt pissing in our pockets for so long.

Rex

yawn

Timbob

Biggus wrote:
Nobody said anything about competing for the title

Yes they did. That's why we were having the discussion.

Biggus

Rex wrote:
yawn

Are you bored Rex?
Why don't you go and make up your fantasy line out for us out with Rooney in it.

Pepe LeFrits

Stop trolling.

Biggus

Well what is this then?

Rex wrote:
yawn

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