y va marquer wrote:

How many actually played any significant part in winning those titles though?

Err most of them.

y va marquer wrote:

Downgrading, moving to weaker leagues, big fish small pond, imoroves chances of winning something I guess.

"Smaller ponds" like la Liga Serie A and ahem the PL.......

Theres no prizes for guessing where the weakest link is.

Those stats about ex-players aren't really up close and personal enough. Specific cases hurt quite a bit, eg Nasri last season, or Van Persie this time around.

Honestly couldn't give a shit about La Liga titles. If one of our players goes off to be a bit parter at Madrid or Barca they're basically a 50-50 shot every single season aren't they?

And if one of our players heads off and does well in a fresh league, for example Henry at the Red Bulls or Eduardo at Shakhtar, I'm happy for the guy.

Cole, Viera, Henry, Van Persie, Clichy and maybe Nasri are the only players on that list who I would say contributed significantly to the titles they won at big clubs.
The others either didn't contribute majorly or moved either to smaller clubs or lesser leagues.
I know you won't see it that way Biggus

My point referrers to trophies in general Y va not just titles.

Burnwinter wrote:

Those stats about ex-players aren't really up close and personal enough.

I know they're just stats, of course they don't tell the whole story.
They're merely a blunt weapon for me to swing about.

Swing about in a drunke daze?

Those numbers are about as relevant to any arsenal discussion as the price of fish.

Just another roundabout, composite rhetorical strategy for restating the irreducible fact that we've won Fuck All in Quite Some Time.

Which appears tautologically in the prime factorisation of any Biggus expression.

But is certainly relevant ...

Captain wrote:

Those numbers are about as relevant to any arsenal discussion as the price of fish.

Awww we're not signing him are we?

Burnwinter wrote:

Just another roundabout, composite rhetorical strategy for restating the irreducible fact that we've won Fuck All in Quite Some Time.

Which appears tautologically in the prime factorisation of any Biggus expression.

But is certainly relevant ...

The figures are useless in any sense. What difference do they make to anything at Arsenal? What possible use could anyone have for producing such an article?

Absolutely worthless.

Because it shows that the fault is not with the players we had but with the club and manager for losing them.

Because they went and played with ten completely different blokes and won a trophy or two? Yeah, not buying it.

You could hardly say we "lost" most of the players on that list though - bar the ones I've already mentioned as having gone on to contribute significantly to trophy winning at another big club.
Anthony Stokes is on that list

I actually think he's improved at Barca. May no be getting as much game time but when he's played, he's looked very assured.

I've seen him look really shit too. Same old Song really.

Song was a classic AFC/Wenger 2004-2012 player in the sense that he was bought cheap, paid peanuts and sold for good value. Wenger literally made him. From being a cheap nobody to a 15 mill player playing for Barca. Only AW could have made it happen.

The amazing thing about AW is that he always knows a things value. He is like a beacon of old world rationality in mad crazy football world. Even in the right system/environment players like song are never worth 15 mill!

The problem is not Song under-performing for Barca or being shit. He was simply an average player who shone under specific coaching/instructions and Wengers man management.

That's underrating Song quite heavily. He was quite easily worth 15M, if not more. I thought he was a lumbering oaf, but put him in our side, tell him what to do, and he'd do a good job. Always got the feeling Wenger gave him too much freedom on the pitch ; works with Cazorla, not Song.

I think, Cannon, you are over-selling Wenger there as many other clubs/managers all over the world do the same thing.
That is basically how they survive in Spain, for example, where Real and Barca cream off all the tv and sponsorship money.
Not a fair discussion either as none of our outfield players, over the past decade, would shine or even get a chance to shine at Barcelona.
Even world class players like Henry, Ibrahimovic, Alexis Sanchez and Cesc have ended up only performing bit-part roles there at varying levels of success!

Bold Tone wrote:

I think, Cannon, you are over-selling Wenger there as many other clubs/managers all over the world do the same thing.
That is basically how they survive in Spain, for example, where Real and Barca cream off all the tv and sponsorship money.
Not a fair discussion either as none of our outfield players, over the past decade, would shine or even get a chance to shine at Barcelona.
Even world class players like Henry, Ibrahimovic, Alexis Sanchez and Cesc have ended up only performing bit-part roles there at varying levels of success!

I am not selling anybody Bold Tone. I am just giving a perspective.

I have re-read your post and 6 out of the 8 sentences are "Wenger perspective" related.

Bold Tone wrote:

I have re-read your post and 6 out of the 8 sentences are "Wenger perspective" related.

Well he is OUR manager and he did do all the things i alluded to. I can only analyze his actions. I am drawing certain conclusions but am allowed to do so and that in no way means i am selling him.