You don't have to imagine it. We all saw Song in his various guises for four years.

He was mostly very average.

Whatevs bro.

asajoseph wrote:

Ramsey was a disaster wherever he played in midfield. He didn't only play RW.

He was total dog shit for ages. I'm staggered he's got to the level he's shown recently, which is good but not top notch

asajoseph wrote:

Ramsey's Arsenal starts before Christmas last year (not all his faul!):

DLWLLWLDDLL

I find it hard to imagine that Song wouldn't have made quite some improvement to those results though, for all his flaws.

Went the tedious way of searching which position Ramsey started in that run, not once did he start as one of the 2 central mids during that run. How is that comparison valid? You can only compare Song to his replacement, which in the first half of the season is Wilshere, Diaby and Coquelin.

Put it this way; if Song had spent the last four years doing in France what he served up here, he'd be all over that anti-wishlist thread.

Clrnc wrote:

asajoseph wrote:

Ramsey's Arsenal starts before Christmas last year (not all his faul!):

DLWLLWLDDLL

I find it hard to imagine that Song wouldn't have made quite some improvement to those results though, for all his flaws.

Went the tedious way of searching which position Ramsey started in that run, not once did he start as one of the 2 central mids during that run. How is that comparison valid? You can only compare Song to his replacement, which in the first half of the season is Wilshere, Diaby and Coquelin.

I don't know what tedious process you followed, but you clearly rushed it just a little. Norwich game, for example - Gervinho, Giroud & Podolski started up front, Ramsey in behind with Arteta.

What's more, you're assuming our lineup would have been identical were Song still here, I'm not.

Captain wrote:

Put it this way; if Song had spent the last four years doing in France what he served up here, he'd be all over that anti-wishlist thread.

And the wishlist thread. Just like M'Vila, Capoue, Kondogbia etc …

Could have done with Song at one or two points in the season, but where we are now he's not missed at all. Arteta holds better than him, Ramsey is better box-to-box.

Burnwinter wrote:

Captain wrote:

Put it this way; if Song had spent the last four years doing in France what he served up here, he'd be all over that anti-wishlist thread.

And the wishlist thread. Just like M'Vila, Capoue, Kondogbia etc …

Are those guys mainstays of the wishlist thread? I see them get mentioned in passing because the papers link us to them, but nobody is really 'that' interested.

It was mostly a joke, but I think the point remains that Song isn't really a player that you "miss" and nor is he detrimental. He's just a bog standard player, the type you can pick up from all over the place. Someone like Bender, to give you a popular name, falls into the same sort of category to me.

Clrnc wrote:

asajoseph wrote:

Ramsey's Arsenal starts before Christmas last year (not all his faul!):

DLWLLWLDDLL

I find it hard to imagine that Song wouldn't have made quite some improvement to those results though, for all his flaws.

Went the tedious way of searching which position Ramsey started in that run, not once did he start as one of the 2 central mids during that run. How is that comparison valid? You can only compare Song to his replacement, which in the first half of the season is Wilshere, Diaby and Coquelin.

Replace Diaby or Coquelin with Song and you'd see serious improvement too.

Of all the players we've sold on in recent years Song would be well down the list of players we miss.

We've sold a busload of incredible stars in recent years. No one's saying Song is anywhere near the best player out of the lot of them.

We missed him in the passage of the season through to our turnaround—so it was dumb to sell him (and then fail to get Şahin).

Ramsey improved to the point that with our midfielders all fit except Diaby, we were in a tolerable position. That's all, so we clearly still need reinforcement in midfield and up front, or, alternatively, it'd be nice to still have Song on the books.

Not a big Song fan but i'd agree with that. As usual the biggest problem with us losing a player was that nobody replaced him. We've got 3 good options for midfield but we need another. Someone like Song is pretty much what we're missing there - a physically strong reliable midfielder who can play a bit too.

asajoseph wrote:

What's more, you're assuming our lineup would have been identical were Song still here, I'm not.

Ah, but had Song still been around maybe we wouldn't have found/used the Arteta-Ramsey combo that was so integral to our good run at the back end of the season.

Swings and roundabouts, would have been nice to have an extra warm body at times, but bottom line is, that despite being very talented, Song is and was bog average.

Then surely you trust the manager to pick the right players at the right times? It's his job, after all.

And, I don't agree that Song was 'bog average either' - he had his limitations, for sure.

Wenger would hardly have played Song at central midfield all season and then randomly thrown Ramsey in at the business end. Plus i think Ramsey needed the games at the start of the season to iron the kinks out.

Having said that, i did feel during pre-season, before the Song to Barca rumors started, that Song would lose his first team place over the course of the year, so maybe it would have happened organically anyway.

asajoseph wrote:

And, I don't agree that Song was 'bog average either' - he had his limitations, for sure.

He was a bog average player who Barcelona paid £15m for the moment he became available. Make what you will of that, as the move certainly hasn't worked out for him. Doubt they would've paid it for 2012 model Diaby or Ramsey though.

I can't really understand the Barça move, given that every time he played against them they were far too fast passing the ball around him in midfield.

That said, I feel that most of his problems in a 'holding' capacity last season were due to him having to push forward and provide creativity in an otherwise entirely turgid midfield and attack, that simply wasn't able to create chances. Again, not the only thing, just a big part of it.

In 08/09 & 09/10 in particular, I thought he played excellently in a much more withdrawn role than he ended up in by 2012.

Yeah, can't say I really understood it either, guess they just saw him as a decent punt for a Keita replacement.

I'd agree with that last para, I'd also say he was invited/instructed to play a box to box role by Wenger, which needn't have happened—and then got hung out to dry for supposedly bad positioning.