Premier League Managers: Page 6 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Premier League Managers

Captain

Very droll.

You can answer yes or no, it's pretty simple.

lorddulaarsenal

Doesn't bother me, but you tend to go against what people say just for the sake of it

Captain

Maybe, maybe not (I don't) but either way it holds little relevance to the conversation in hand.

If somebody believes that champions league qualification is par for the course than the logical progression is that getting "top four for over fifteen years under Wenger" holds no merit in the context of discussion about a manager's quality. Just so happens that several people have expressed that opinion strongly and on numerous occasions with Lagos being a prominent member of that particular group.

Rex

That is not my take on Capi at all. He sometimes gives short dismissive replies but he then generally comes back with his reasons. A lot of the time after the recipient of his dismissive initial post gets his feelings hurt. 🙂

lorddulaarsenal

Do people actually get their feelings hurt on here?

Klaus

Don't question Rex. He'll get upset.

mohan

😆

Biggus

Captain wrote:
All that you have to do is remember that Biggus, Lagos, Asa and maybe a few others don't believe champions league qualification has any merit. It will save you many words and plenty of time.

Err- Don't believe champions league qualification has any merit under the present regime where the manager is not good enough to win it and it's patently just a money making exercise.

@ Lagos good post, also don't forget that when Wenger arrived first in 96 he still had the chassis of the champion side of 91, sure he had to put in an engine and fill her up but the framework was there.

kamikaze

i will make two points:

(1) it confuses the issue terribly to use a 15yr timeframe to evaluate wenger. no one denies that wenger pre-2005 was one of the best managers in the world. i'd love to have that man running the club again. what is facing scrutiny is wenger's performance post-2005. therefore, only the 8yr timeframe is relevant.

(2) when making statements about the level of financial resources available at arsenal, one must remember that our negative net transfer spending was a choice, a self-imposed limitation on the calibre of our squad, and not something that was forced on us. it is perverse to give a manager credit for intentionally not spending available funds on players. if anything, that is sabotaging the team and its chances of winning. abramovich didn't change the rules so that we had to have the lowest net transfer spend in the entire league - that's what wenger decided to do himself.

Biggus

kamikaze wrote:
(1) it confuses the issue terribly to use a 15yr timeframe to evaluate wenger. no one denies that wenger pre-2005 was one of the best managers in the world. i'd love to have that man running the club again. what is facing scrutiny is wenger's performance post-2005. therefore, only the 8yr timeframe is relevant.

This is what causes otherwise rational people like Burnsy problems.
They agree that Wenger has failed and it would be best for all concerned if we gave him a pat on the back and sing "for he's a jolly good fellow" but the fact is he won't go, he refuses to recognise that he's the problem.

It's best if you imagine that the real Arsene Wenger died in 2006, his brain was sucked and his body is now just a mindless drone controlled by the same shadowy nefarious right wing forces that control the Bernie drone.
This way you should have no moral dilemma and no scruples about displaying hostility and contempt towards him. 😉

Rex

I am firmly where Burnsy is. Wenger is certainly a good manager still, but he still has to go.

Coombs

Biggus wrote:
It's best if you imagine that the real Arsene Wenger died in 2006, his brain was sucked and his body is now just a mindless drone controlled by the same shadowy nefarious right wing forces that control the Bernie drone.
This way you should have no moral dilemma and no scruples about displaying hostility and contempt towards him. 😉

😆

kamikaze

Depressed Rex wrote:
I am firmly where Burnsy is. Wenger is certainly a good manager still, but he still has to go.

i guess he's good, in that he meets the expectation of CL football. then again, since 2005, a financial top 4 club has NEVER failed to qualify for the CL, so i don't know how impressive of an accomplishment that is.

[note: financial top 4 clubs have finished lower than 4th twice, but in both instances, they qualified for the CL by winning the damned thing]

the list of successful financial top 4 managers here includes fergie, wenger, mourinho, ancelotti, grant, di matteo, scolari, hiddink, mancini. the failures in terms of consistent qualification would be villas-boas, benitez.

the above certainly doesn't suggest that we'd be screwed without wenger. he seems pretty replaceable so long as we don't do anything stupid.

Rex

Everybody can be replaced of course.

Biggus

Depressed Rex wrote:
I am firmly where Burnsy is. Wenger is certainly a good manager still, but he still has to go.

Talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it...

Burnwinter

You're attacking a straw man Lagos.

As I've explained quite a few times, I don't divert blame from Wenger. This is his club and his status quo.

I just don't accept the thesis that he is, in pure football terms and given any particular group of players, a bad manager. Results don't bear it out.

Burnwinter

There is a long distance between that 'bad manager for us' and the claim, repeatedly made, that he is a bad manager per se.

I want Wenger's tenure to end, so I don't disagree with you on him not being the best choice for us at the moment and under the circumstances.

Timbob

I think Wenger is clearly still a good manager. But there's a strong argument to be made that he has run his course here. If he leaves and if he still has the energy and motivation I would expect him to go to another club and have some success.

FEBravo

I think Denilson is shit for all levels. Except maybe my Tuesday night game. But I digress.

Burnwinter

@Lagos Well, I wasn't addressing my views to anyone in particular, but there's no shortage of people around to say absolutely "Wenger is tactically clueless and a shit match day manager."

Personally think he does have the skillset as far as the football side is concerned, but he's got the wrong motivations for us. Doesn't feel enough pressure (or desire) to win.

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