Lets all laugh at Man Utd.: Page 79 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Lets all laugh at Man Utd.

Burnwinter

Yep, main issue is that the old owners went with a "fatten up for the slaughter" strategy right when our brand was peaking.

kamikaze

i dont think so, claudius. the emirates deal is short-sighted considering that it includes shirt sponsorship, training kit sponsorship and stadium naming rights. it was already below-market when it was signed, and will look even worse when united or chelsea announce a huge stadium naming rights deal in the next few years.

for reference, here are some US stadium rights deals:
NY Mets, baseball, 20 yrs for $400m
NY Giants and Jets, football, 25 yrs for $400m
Brooklyn Nets, basketball, 20 yrs for $200m

based on the above, the stadium naming rights are prob worth at least 10m GBP annually. which means our kit and training kit sponsorships are only 25m/yr combined. piss poor, we're short a 25m player each season before a ball is even kicked.

this is a huge issue. in all honesty, it's prob more important than who our manager is, when you figure that if we didnt have wenger, we'd have some other top manager like van gaal, hiddink, ancelotti, etc., since that is what top clubs do.

Claudius

Kamikaze, facts only. This is what we signed with Emirates
In 2004, £90m total contract

8 years shirt deal up to summer 2014: £48m
15 year stadium deal up to summer 2021: £42m
In 2012, £150m total contract that updates only the shirt portion of the above structure up to summer 2019
Those are the headline figures. It could be that Emirates have already fully paid up the £42m on the stadium deal to cover the stadium loan, but we are still in contract with them on that portion of the deal. So we are presently in contract with them for 30m (shirt)+ 3m (stadium) per season

On its own, the shirt deal is fine and represents market value relative to other big clubs. It is on par with Real and Barca, and larger than Chelsea and City.

The stadium rights were potentially underrated from the start, but that might have been driven by how much had to be paid up front, reducing our bargaining position. Do not forget that building a Premier League stadium is quite a different financing proposition from building an American arena which is often financed and/or backed by municipalities making it easier to structure longterm naming deals

Khanuppet

Apparently the fact that Ashburton grove has become synonymous with emirates stadium, at the very least it will be by 2021. The value for any other company to sponsor the stadium at this point is less appealing. That probably had an impact on the negotiations.

Claudius

i don't buy that. a good sponsor will find a way to overcome the Emirates brand.
Samsung Stadium or other will catch on very quickly. but Emirates have us by the nuts here. they admitted that this is the one deal they made it out like bandits on a few years ago.
we should definitely whore ourselves in 2017 when we are negotiating our next shirt deal, and likewise in 2019 when we work on the stadium deal

Meatwad

not kami, but here are some facts:

http://www.arsenal.com/Emiratesnewdeal

As part of the deal Arsenal’s home will continue to be known as Emirates Stadium up to 2028.

The Emirates brand will also continue appearing on the front of Arsenal’s playing and training kits and the new agreement contains a number of marketing rights, which come into effect immediately, to ensure Emirates can engage with Arsenal fans in the UK and abroad.

it's a shit deal. this was argued on this site before when the deal was announced and i guess we don't need to rehash it. but if the club thought that emirates asking to extend the naming rights to 2028 was nothing to get in a huff about and walk away from the negotiating table for then they are stupid. it has value and so does the training kit and they pissed it away. you might want to blame the old guard some how, but there was logic behind their actions and it help produced a mega earner of a stadium. what was the logic in getting for your matchday, training and stadium name what other clubs are getting for the matchday shirt alone?

Claudius

Meatwad, thanks for the correction. Would be interesting to do an interview with Gazidis to understand. Does anybody have a reliable source that shows what each team is earning in total for stadium, matchday shirt, and training shirt deals?

Khanuppet

Who knows what stadium naming rights would have been worth in 2021 eh

Biggus

Financial fair play huh?
People were focused on the wrong issues when they supported it, "new money" to clubs like Chelsea Man City and PSG only broadened the base of clubs who could realistically compete.
It won't be long till Real et al strike similar deals, I thought you'd all be pretty delighted now that normal service is resumed.

Claudius

I just looked at a good list of all the world's most valuable naming rights for stadiums. One thing struck me - all these stadiums are in the USA.Here's one hypothesis I have as to why these deals should be so American in nature:

These stadium deals are substitutes for jersey deals. American football, hockey, baseball and basketball teams do not have jersey sponsorship. The teams are franchises, and the leagues negotiate all sponsorships centrally. So the only way for Barclays to be associated with the Brooklyn Nets or Fedex the Redskins, is to name their stadium. In some instances, the sponsor gets to associate with multiple teams by naming a joint basketball/hockey stadium. Thus, we are likely not leaving as much money as one might think on the table

kamikaze

dortmund is getting €5m/yr from their stadium naming rights. no disrespect to them, but arsenal has a much higher profile, as does the premier league and london. it's not difficult to imagine arsenal getting the £10m/yr that i guesstimate is market value.

you really seem to be hung up on the fact that none of the big clubs in europe have really done this yet, but no one had done a £750m shirt deal before, either.

Rex

Firstly, 'guesstimate' is such a wonderful word! Secondly, and more importantly, I think it is appropriate to give cred to Man U and their forward thinking when it comes to commercial deals. Gazidis, a few years ago, said that when he came to the club he estimated we were about 7 years behind Man U in this department. Everyone else has been trying to play catch up since then, but they are still some way ahead of us. Kami may very well be right regarding naming rights; just because it hasn't really been explored in football doesn't mean that it can't be done. That can very well be one of the innovative things clubs like Man U and Bayern will look to exploit in the coming years, and we may look well silly being locked into a poor deal until 2028.

Qwiss

Rex wrote:
Firstly, 'guesstimate' is such a wonderful word! Secondly, and more importantly, I think it is appropriate to give cred to Man U

I'm fairly sure this combined is grounds for a banning..

Rex

:o You better not hit that button until you've talked to the other mods!

Love you, Yves! :dulaoohtobe:

Claudius

Oh, Rex. Not saying that there is no value in stadium deals. I just think we are overestimating what they might be worth. If the stadium is worth £3m, for example, and we subtract that from the Emirates deal, then we still have a favorable jersey deal relative to our peers.

One thing to remember is that our first deal left us so cash-strapped, that we have had to push much of our 5 year deal cash into the first two years. That's why we can buy Ozil, Sanchez and others right now without selling. In order to achieve this, I'm sure we had to make the stadium naming concession. It may look entirely short-sighted at first, but I can imagine Emirates throwing that into the negotiation. The other alternatives for us might be a smaller deal overall, like the first Emirates deal or raising even more debt against the deal.

Coombs

Yea, just looking at the numbers doesn't really tell the whole story, and hindsight obviously is obvious. Who knows what the negotiations were like? We weren't as global a brand then as we are now either, regardless of what happened on the pitch.

kamikaze

yes, we were probably a bigger brand back then, as we hadn't been tainted by 9 yrs of failure.

claudius, not sure why you feel this need to invent scenarios that you imagine were restricting our executives. it's not as if we were desperate and had no leverage, and jesus, thank god for nike and emirates airlines otherwise we might've gone under... 🙂

hindsight is 20/20, but i've been saying this the entire time, as have many others. as for cash flow, lets be serious, it's not remotely a problem and never has been.

Claudius

i am just putting forward reasonable ideas that could explain why we don't have a separate deal or bigger sponsorship. i don't think that it is as simple as we are not pulling our weight. we are making more than every English club bar United, so we are not lagging, just not leading. i'm happy with our current deals. they're a massive leap forward from where we were a year ago

Biggus

qs! wrote:
Rex wrote:
Firstly, 'guesstimate' is such a wonderful word! Secondly, and more importantly, I think it is appropriate to give cred to Man U

I'm fairly sure this combined is grounds for a banning..

Nah- You stick with us Rex and you'll learn some great English words like "thunderbastard" and "absofuckinglutely"

Meatwad

Claudius wrote:
i am just putting forward reasonable ideas that could explain why we don't have a separate deal or bigger sponsorship. i don't think that it is as simple as we are not pulling our weight. we are making more than every English club bar United, so we are not lagging, just not leading. i'm happy with our current deals. they're a massive leap forward from where we were a year ago

liverpool make more as well. they make about 41m to display a sponsor on their matchday and training shirts.

since we can't innovate we need to copy. wouldn't be surprised if emirates weaseled in a clause that we can't have any other sponsors on the kit (since we were obviously so desperate to have the 30m number to brag about as our shirt sponsorship), so who knows if we can copy barca and the other clubs that have a sponsor on the sleeve. i know manyoo probably saw that and was thinking, how the fuck did we miss that and then started making calls.

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