Ricky1985 wrote:

I don't agree. What Barcelona and Real have done is far worse, they've taken away any chance the other clubs had of competing against them in the League, and also made it far more difficult for them to compete for good players with clubs from other European Leagues that don't allow the bigger clubs to write their own cheque at the start of the season. Absolutely disgusting.

I honestly fail to see the difference compared to Premier League. Chelsea had a wage bill that was almost £80 million higher than ours at one point when they were at their peak. They attracted players by paying them twice as much as anyone else would. They're all cheats. They just use different means.

Ricky1985 wrote:

In the Premier League we don't have it perfect, far from it; the Bundesliga is pretty close in my opinion, but we still have every team getting their equal share of the money the competition can draw in.

I like this too about Premier League, but it means absolutely nothing when you've got Chelsea and City spending over £300 million each on transfers in two years.

Ricky1985 wrote:

Man City and Chelsea are cheats, of course they are, but at least we have 4 or 5 other teams that have big players and big budgets.

So does La Liga. I think they have better, more technical and more tactically schooled players on the whole, most of the strength of Premier League lies in its top four. But this is not really a thread to compare the leagues. It's for discussing the behaviour of Barcelona and Real Madrid.

It doesn't really matter "who cheats more", though, does it? Football would probably be improved by a New Deal on TV rights in Spain.

Anzhi, PSG, City ... football's weird at the moment.

It's extremely depressing. PSG in particular. Ligue 1 was just getting interesting again after all the years of total domination from Lyon.

PSG is just odd. Why bankroll a club in a second tier league?

I don't get it either. Maybe they really, really like French football? :confused:

I can see what they were doing with PSG. Paris has oddly been completely off the European football map. PSG provides an opportunity to own a club in a large city with the guarantee of Champions League football pretty much every season.

Sure, I get the European attraction, but they'll be more open than ever to accusations of being a joke club in a two bit league.

A club that's going to challenge in the CL would likewise challenge in one of the four serious leagues in Europe, squad depth or no.

Anyway, I've always enjoyed the imbalance of finances in football, it's one of the things that keeps the game sexy compared to a tedious, cyclic, draft-and-cap-neutered system. The FFP done right feels like a good balance between allowing investment while making sure it's not just buying trophies.

Serious question for you Klaus.
You're Swedish an overseas supporter- like many of us, you constantly profess admiration for the continental leagues and dismiss the EPL as a brutal hackfest.
So why do you watch it and support Arsenal?
How did they become your team?

I bet it's something to do with Anders Limpar?

Mostly agreed Ricky. I can't see the similarity to Chelsky. Maybe Citeh, because the company sponsoring them is effectively a national trust.

What's happening in Spain there is worse because it extends far beyond football. You're asking your kids to pay for loans propping up your football team. Not from gate receipts, from their taxes!

This has been going on for years, Real benefited from Franco's patronage, he was a big fan of theirs, and Barcelona are the defacto national team of Catalonia..

I long for the days when the rivalry between between Barca and Real keep the Spanish national team weak and ineffective.

One subject that somewhat slipped attention after the start is that it's not just the spanish kids who carry their team's debts - the whole point of hoeness' jibe is that this is directly related to the competition, and directly makes it unfair. For, if the spanish government pays the debt (which they do; and as klaus rightly said - it's basically supported by the democracy), and then gets paid for a debt they cannot repay the Germans, who in their turn can afford to absorb that debt exactly because they are running their affairs decently and hoenesstly (had to), then this is a major piss off.

Another subject reflected in this thread is the inevitable tension in which football (as all competitive sports) will always be: the market, on one hand, and the fair rules of the game. To put it in the simplest way - one extreme is unregulated, and the other fully regulated. The game falls somewhere in the middle, and all we do here is argue how much should we pull.

There is NO necessity in the competition entirely losing it's worth if it were entirely exposed to the market forces: if, for example, all the rich people of the world had a shared interest in football, the result might actually be a lot of money going into all the teams - and the competition only gets better and better.

But there is one necessity - and it emanates from the nature of the game: if it is not played by more or less equal teams, it is worthless. If, for example (as can happen today, and does happen - to what extent we can debate) there's one team full of Ronaldos playing another full of amateurs, the whole thing is pointless.

Something interesting may be happening in that respect concerning La Liga and the CL (thus taking us back to the initial topic): What happens with Real and Barca is fucked on so many levels it's unreal; but the thought arises that had it not been for the emergence of the CL, that sick process would at some point come to a halt: they keep owing money to the same people who in the end are left without a meaningful league? that's crazy, and though (in spain, and some other places) that's not an assurance it would be enough to stop it, it just might (at some point).

Enter the CL, and a new, potent motivation to keep feeding the beast: the semi-national pride and support, dragging with it the whole country, making the government silence enough to the corrupt nature of proceedings, as people are obviously happy with the result. And then they beg the rich (Germany, who, in case you forgot, has "an inferior league", and teams that simply can't compete with the "giants from spain" - they have no chance, they can't pay such money!), and keep winning the major trophies.

Finally, I'm the last person to defend Platini and his type - I think the guy is a real low life. But for the life of me I cannot understand how people can reject in principle any form of fair play rules. To me it is quite simple: if there is no monitoring, or frame of regulations that would keep football a fair competition, the whole thing will be left to the mercy of forces who care not about it, and the likelihood of it surviving (as I mentioned above - it is not impossible, only quite random) is, in my opinion, minimal.

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