van Persie sold to Man United: Page 72 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

van Persie sold to Man United

asajoseph

qs! wrote:
asajoseph wrote:
I don't think any of us really know what's going on, but pretty much everything I've seen written suggest that what you've just written I'd a load of codswallop. Wenger is the most influential man at the club. By a country mile.

More than Kroenke and his goon?

In terms of who actually makes the decisions that affect the running football side of the club? You bet.

y va marquer

Nela wrote:
Captain wrote:
Of course he'll sort it out, because he always sorts it out, even last year after an absolutely ridiculous summer. Losing a bloke like Perse is no big deal in isolation.

I agree with this. The cost of losing him is more psychological than the actuall loss of the player. Just look at how crazy emotional some of the reaction has been. Part of that is that a lot of fans felt a strong emotional connection to him. I can understand that even though I never had those feelings about him. But a lot of it is about how it makes us look, what it says about Arsenal. It's about pride, embarassment.

You underestimate the psychological cost and the emotional cost - both have an effect on the squad as a whole, on the first team and on performances.
Players aren't parts of a machine, you can't just add and subtract "some bloke" like van Persie and expect those who played with him to just chug along.

Those who are saying that we adapted just fine and dandy to the loss of Cesc, Nasri are obviously forgetting the horrendous form we showed until mid October.

They're also forgetting who was key in keeping us afloat last season.

Hope Giroud and Podolski aren't it as far as new strikers go.

Nela

I appreciate RvP's form last season. But I've never bought the narrative about him "single-handedly" saving the club to the extent that it's been pushed by the media and the fans.

Qwiss

asajoseph wrote:
qs! wrote:
More than Kroenke and his goon?

In terms of who actually makes the decisions that affect the running football side of the club? You bet.

Well if by football side you mean formation, selection, etc then yeah. If you mean he has a mountain of cash he just chooses not to spend to keep players and sign new ones then I'd say that's a load of codswallop.

asajoseph

He scored a significantly greater proportion of our goals than anyone at top CL club in Europe did for their club bar Messi & Di Natale, and I don't for a second think the likes of Chamakh or Park would have just picked up the slack if he wasn't there.

Nela

y va marquer wrote:
Nela wrote:
I agree with this. The cost of losing him is more psychological than the actuall loss of the player. Just look at how crazy emotional some of the reaction has been. Part of that is that a lot of fans felt a strong emotional connection to him. I can understand that even though I never had those feelings about him. But a lot of it is about how it makes us look, what it says about Arsenal. It's about pride, embarassment.

You underestimate the psychological cost and the emotional cost - both have an effect on the squad as a whole, on the first team and on performances.
Players aren't parts of a machine, you can't just add and subtract "some bloke" like van Persie and expect those who played with him to just chug along.

No, I'm not. I've consistently emphasized that it's the psychological/emotional aspect of the RvP situation that is most problematic. I said the same of the Nasri situation.

asajoseph

qs! wrote:
asajoseph wrote:
In terms of who actually makes the decisions that affect the running football side of the club? You bet.

Well if by football side you mean formation, selection, etc then yeah. If you mean he has a mountain of cash he just chooses not to spend to keep players and sign new ones then I'd say that's a load of codswallop.

Well, we've discussed this time and time again, but history suggests otherwise.

y va marquer

asajoseph wrote:
He scored a significantly greater proportion of our goals than anyone at top CL club in Europe did for their club bar Messi & Di Natale, and I don't for a second think the likes of Chamakh or Park would have just picked up the slack if he wasn't there.

Exactly.
Plus there's a difference between saying he was key in keeping us afloat and saying that he singlehandedly saved the club.

JazzG

Even though I suspected this may happen I'm actually quite annoyed about a few things:

How the hell have we yet again let a player get into his last year of a contract, same with Theo and if we don't tie up Song into a new deal same will happen next summer
How disrespectful for RvP to come out and make an announcement like this, from what I've read it took the club by surprise. He gave us a great 1.5 seasons but we have stuck by him through everything and now he suddenly thinks this club isn't good enough for him. After him giving it large about how he wants to stay here and win trophies with us and now this this. I bet if he had 10 league goals last season most top clubs wouldn't give him the time of day
I'd love the club to make an announcement tomorrow saying that he won't be sold and is being stripped of his captaincy.

Unfortunately I think he will be sold to the highest bidder and can only hope we will go out and use that money to strengthen the squad wisely.

Qwiss

asajoseph wrote:
qs! wrote:
Well if by football side you mean formation, selection, etc then yeah. If you mean he has a mountain of cash he just chooses not to spend to keep players and sign new ones then I'd say that's a load of codswallop.

Well, we've discussed this time and time again, but history suggests otherwise.

No it doesn't.

y va marquer

Nela wrote:
y va marquer wrote:
You underestimate the psychological cost and the emotional cost - both have an effect on the squad as a whole, on the first team and on performances.
Players aren't parts of a machine, you can't just add and subtract "some bloke" like van Persie and expect those who played with him to just chug along.

No, I'm not. I've consistently emphasized that it's the psychological/emotional aspect of the RvP situation that is most problematic. I said the same of the Nasri situation.

Ah right, misunderstood your post completely then!

kamikaze

This explains the lowball offers. Everyone knew he was off, and Arsenal always capitulates to its cheapskate tendencies.

asajoseph

qs! wrote:
asajoseph wrote:
Well, we've discussed this time and time again, but history suggests otherwise.

No it doesn't.

You can go back to 2005 and see clear examples of Wenger leaving significant cash unspent time & time again.

lorddulaarsenal

Used to the routine now. Firm part of ground hog

thedawnraids

qs! wrote:
I find it interesting how people can't manage to accept the problems at ownership and board level as well as seeing what RVP did today as selfish, unprofessional and spiteful. Its not one or the other.

It's easier to blame someone though, having one party in isolation expedites the process.

Everyone says the team should have given him more money/ whatever he wants, but then we can't move an awful lot of dead weight we desperately need to move because of the wages they're on now.

The club don't show enough ambition, yet we've already spent on 2 forwards and the window still has 2 months to go to spend more.

I'm not saying the board/Wenger don't have a bit (if not extremely large) role in this cycle we're in. It's just very rare you do one thing (outside of spending oodles of some rich guys toy-spending money) and it's the perfect solution for your club, or else every club would do it.

kamikaze

Its all part of the circlejerk of arsenal life

Captain

kamikaze wrote:
This explains the lowball offers. Everyone knew he was off, and Arsenal always capitulates to its cheapskate tendencies.

There weren't any lowball offers.

y va marquer

Can't say I can be accepting, resigned or philosophical about this.
Jumping between anger and sadness.

Qwiss

the dawn raids wrote:
qs! wrote:
I find it interesting how people can't manage to accept the problems at ownership and board level as well as seeing what RVP did today as selfish, unprofessional and spiteful. Its not one or the other.

It's easier to blame someone though, having one party in isolation expedites the process.

Everyone says the team should have given him more money/ whatever he wants, but then we can't move an awful lot of dead weight we desperately need to move because of the wages they're on now.

The club don't show enough ambition, yet we've already spent on 2 forwards and the window still has 2 months to go to spend more.

I'm not saying the board/Wenger don't have a bit (if not extremely large) role in this cycle we're in. It's just very rare you do one thing (outside of spending oodles of some rich guys toy-spending money) and it's the perfect solution for your club, or else every club would do it.

I sort of agree. I think the club signing Podolski and Giroud early makes RVPs claims that he wanted to stay but the club weren't matching his ambition ring a bit hollow. In this window so far I don't see alot more the club could have done realistically. He was always going to leave, what was said in that meeting never mattered.

y va marquer

qs! wrote:
I sort of agree. I think the club signing Podolski and Giroud early makes RVPs claims that he wanted to stay but the club weren't matching his ambition ring a bit hollow. In this window so far I don't see alot more the club could have done realistically. He was always going to leave, what was said in that meeting never mattered.

You're assuming it's all about the players we're buying or have bought.
Maybe it's also connected with players that the club are willing to sell this window.

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