van Persie sold to Man United: Page 122 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

van Persie sold to Man United

Burnwinter

The type of game we played with Fabregas at the heart of the side was certainly not inferior to the game we played last season. Neither by observation nor in terms of results. The problem has never been Cesc or the other stars we've had for that matter - it's the weak links.

I haven't a clue what you mean, RvP wasn't ever present but he wasn't absent.

Yes you do. Have a look at his stats and appearances prior to 2011.

we hardly ever scored from a set piece or a corner (which statistically accounts for 50% of goals) and this was because everything came through Fabregas.

Why would having Fabregas in the side prevent us from scoring at set pieces or corners? It didn't. Lacking a decent big man after Ade left and having no respectable dead ball specialist in the first team squad is what hurt us there.

The cold hard truth is that despite being a bit of an irritating little prick, Fabregas is a superb player who lifts any side in which he plays. He lifts Spain when he comes on for them for fuck's sake.

Anyway, all that said, I understand your odium for the little shit, but extending it to Cazorla on the basis of some tinfoil hat theory about Wenger restructuring the entire setup around him is knee jerk nonsense.

Biggus

Burnwinter wrote:
The type of game we played with Fabregas at the heart of the side was certainly not inferior to the game we played last season. Neither by observation nor in terms of results. The problem has never been Cesc or the other stars we've had for that matter - it's the weak links.

So all that matters is the quality of individual players?
What of strong balanced complimentary sides being worth more than the sum of their parts, playing an efficient style and punching above their weight?
May as well hand the Title to Man City now and save a lot of bother.....

Why would having Fabregas in the side prevent us from scoring at set pieces or corners? It didn't. Lacking a decent big man after Ade left and having no respectable dead ball specialist in the first team squad is what hurt us there.

Because it did mate, fact is we became typecast and predictable, whether that was down to Fabregas or Wengers instructions is irrelevant now- but we did.

The cold hard truth is that despite being a bit of an irritating little prick, Fabregas is a superb player who lifts any side in which he plays. He lifts Spain when he comes on for them for fuck's sake.

He compliments Spain and you can't argue with trophies.
But you know- I used to think that great players (and Fabregas is admittedly very very good) could play in any system bringing in average players and making them look better, but Fabregas is a long way from the finished article, you know a Messi or a Zidane who destroys teams single-handedly.

Anyway, all that said, I understand your odium for the little shit, but extending it to Cazorla on the basis of some tinfoil hat theory about Wenger restructuring the entire setup around him is knee jerk nonsense.

As I said, I'm not anti Carzola per se, but I am cynical and mistrustful of Wenger- and with good reason.

Burnwinter

So all that matters is the quality of individual players?
What of strong balanced complimentary sides being worth more than the sum of their parts, playing an efficient style and punching above their weight?

Sounds like handwaving mate. Which of our major trophy winning sides since the start of the PL would you describe as punching above its weight? The balance of history says they were all studded with giant talents.

Biggus

Well the early Wenger sides 97-05 didn't cost much and people forget how good the Man Utd side of that era was, we were the only thing that stood in their way.
Yes we had very talented players but they were all wonderfully complimentary, the workrate of Parlour and Petit, the guile and opportunism of Ljunberg and Pires, the brilliance of Bergkamp and Henry and the imperiousness of Vieira and Adams.

Captain

Generally, we have punched above our weight since the Graham years.

Biggus

Yes, until 2006, since then we couldn't punch our way out of a wet paper bag.

Captain

We've still punched above our weight during that time. Way above.

Biggus

I disagree, we could and should have done much better on many occasions.
Losing to fucking Birmingham in a final couldn't be described as punching above our weight by any stretch of the imagination.

Ricky1985

Biggus wrote:
Well the early Wenger sides 97-05 didn't cost much and people forget how good the Man Utd side of that era was, we were the only thing that stood in their way.
Yes we had very talented players but they were all wonderfully complimentary, the workrate of Parlour and Petit, the guile and opportunism of Ljunberg and Pires, the brilliance of Bergkamp and Henry and the imperiousness of Vieira and Adams.

Doesn't it excite you even a little to see Wenger finally trying to shape a new side with the likes of Merresacker, Arteta, Podolski, maybe Cazorla? All very different players, but with experience and genuine quality. Maybe he'll knit it all together into another serious team. He has, after all, got a track record of doing exactly that when he's had enough quality players to pick from.

Biggus

It was all going well till he tried to sign Carzola Ricky, that runs somewhat against the grain and doesn't fit if he was seriously repentant.

Rohit

The result against Birmingham does rankle still.

That shouldn't take away from the fact that we have done incredibly well while transitioning to a new stadium without the benefit of external money.

I will be surprised if another club can pull that off in today's scenario. Liverpool and Tottenham have been contemplating but neither club has been able to put their vision into action. We put it all together very quickly whilst remaining competitve for most part.

There have been a number of mistakes over the past years but as an institution we have done far more right. I really hope we can push on from here.

The new Manchester United shirt sponsorship deal with Chevrolet is worth £53.2 Million alone. Leave aside their other commercial partnerships and still our handicap is startling considering we do just around £30 Million overall. We paid a massive price for moving stadiums but the gap to the top didn't grow so wide so as to make it insurmountable. Everything will be much better with or without FFP once we renew our commercial deals. That isn't to say that we have had no money but we will certainly be far more competitive financially.

Rohit

Biggus wrote:
It was all going well till he tried to sign Carzola Ricky, that runs somewhat against the grain and doesn't fit if he was seriously repentant.

Who do you think we should be signing Biggus?

Burnwinter

Captain wrote:
Generally, we have punched above our weight since the Graham years.

Financially, yes.

In terms of the performances you might expect from the players we've signed based on their fees and reputations before coming here alone, yes.

In terms of how good the players we've had have actually been, no. Just my opinion, but I think the sides we've had that have won major trophies have all been full of talent. If anything it's a crime that we didn't win a European trophy between 97-2005.

Pepe LeFrits

So, RvP then?

Anyone else think that Podolski and Giroud were brought in on the assumption he'd leave, and him staying might complicate matters? If Cazorla and Sahin come in, how do you accomodate all of them?

est

As Wenger already said, Giroud and Podolski need more time to settle in. And van Persie is due another injury anytime soon, so it wouldn't be impossible.

Unlikely though.

Rohit

A lot of rumours doing the rounds - speculation on Song's future, Walcott hasn't signed a contract and not much needs to be said about RVP. It is good that for once we aren't waiting on someone to leave before buying players. Either ways, we should just hope all 'ins' are done before the season begins, even if the 'outs' happen close to the end of the window.

I am very excited, this is a very new and fresh Arsenal. It could go all very wrong though if we don't start well. These players need to work on cohesion, our game thrives on that. If we can get going from the word go, then apart from what it means for the title race, it will just provide a comfortable and happy setting for players to settle and build spirit.

y va marquer

I think Theo will stay, he's not shown any signs that he's intent on leaving and other clubs haven't been clamouring for his services.
Song? Those Barca rumours are way too sketchy for the moment.
Van Persie? Who knows. Maybe we'll sell him January

Patters

Pepe LeFrits wrote:
So, RvP then?

Anyone else think that Podolski and Giroud were brought in on the assumption he'd leave, and him staying might complicate matters? If Cazorla and Sahin come in, how do you accomodate all of them?

I don't think we'll get the Sahin loan but in any case I think the usual bunch of injuries will make selection quite easy. No need to worry about that.

Timbob

Everything points to the fact that this bloke should get off his high horse, stop being a mug, sign the very good contract offer on the table and captain us in to his dotage. We would all forgive him and he could, potentially, still leave Arsenal a legend.

Captain

Biggus wrote:
I disagree, we could and should have done much better on many occasions.
Losing to fucking Birmingham in a final couldn't be described as punching above our weight by any stretch of the imagination.

Behave.

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