van Persie sold to Man United: Page 116 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

van Persie sold to Man United

Roadrunner

Not sure and don't want to be reading to much into it but has Rvp chaned his picture on his twitter account from wearing the arsenal colours to the Dutch colours ?

Mirth

Biggus wrote:
It's like that wave of warmth that flows through you just before you die of hypothermia.

😆

banduan

Roadrunner wrote:
Not sure and don't want to be reading to much into it but has Rvp chaned his picture on his twitter account from wearing the arsenal colours to the Dutch colours ?

happened ages ago, for the euros.

goon

Strange that this isn't overshadowing our whole summer like you would expect. I think if we sign Carzola soon I'll be pretty immune to the end result of this.

lorddulaarsenal

Mix of used to it, the market being slow, rvps massive salary demands and the fact that there are loads of other great options in the market

Klaus

I think last season showed across most of Europe on both club and international level that you don't really need brilliant strikers to win - you need brilliant midfielders. With that in mind our signings make a lot of sense so far. Podolski and Giroud would both offer us solid options depending on the opposition. What we need to do now is to improve on the players supporting them. Seem to be well on our way too if you believe the rumour mill. If we really manage to sign Sahin and Cazorla then Robin can fuck off to whatever club he has in mind for all I care.

y va marquer

United and City both had 20+ goal in the season goal scorers though.
I think a striker of that calibre is a must for us if we have serious designs on winning anything.
Or else we need a dominant unstoppable Drogba type who steps up a level for cup games.
Would Giroud be able for that role?
He might be.

Coombs

Klaus is right, though. The midfield is what makes a top scorer, and also what defines the defense. As the quality of the game rises and the technical ability of players with it, the midfield is becoming so important that nobody in the front or back, regardless of how good they are, are able to truly carry a team.

y va marquer

Klaus is making a good point but he's not wholly right 🙂
If the quality of midfield is what makes a top scorer how then do you explain how van Persie and Rooney were the two top scorers in the PL last season?
And Dempsey for Fulham fourth on that list?

Klaus

United didn't win anything last season, y va.

I'm thinking mainly about Dortmund, Juventus, Chelsea, Spain. Bundesliga, Serie A, Champions League and Euro 2012 were won by teams who had superior midfielders, like Kagawa, Pirlo, Marchisio, Ramires, Mata, Xavi and Alonso. Even the ones who had freescoring strikers, like City and Real, had David Silva and Mesut Özil producing career-defining seasons. United shifted into another gear when they brought back a still-brilliant Paul Scholes.

As a counter-example, Messi produced one of the most brilliant individual seasons in the history of the game but Barcelona won fuckall because they wrecked their midfield balance. Milan had a glowing Ibrahimovic up front but lost the Scudetto because Allegri favoured physically superior players over the technically accomplished ones in midfield. It was nicely illustrated by the transfer of Pirlo to Juve. No one in Conte's team scored more than 9 goals last season when they went through the league unbeaten.

y va marquer wrote:
If the quality of midfield is what makes a top scorer how then do you explain how van Persie and Rooney were the two top scorers in the PL last season?
And Dempsey for Fulham fourth on that list?

All three teams were geared to get the most out of those players. van Persie didn't score 37 solo goals last season. My point isn't really that the midfield makes a top scorer, though. It's that you need a great midfield to win things.

y va marquer

United didn't win anything last season Klaus but that has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make 🙂

Clearly Robin did not score 37 solo goals but the point you were making is that it's the quality of the midfield that makes a striker, and given that the quality of both our midfield and United's last season was not on a par with any of the teams that you mentioned above you could argue that players of lesser quality than both Rooney and van Persie would not have been in the 20+ goalscorers league.

Van Persie in particular had a great season in spite of the quality of those around him.

I know it's massively unpopular to say anything positive about Van Persie these days.
I've lost pretty much all the respect I had for him but if I'm being fair I think this notion that he was only good because the team was geared to feed him goals is nonsense.

Particularly when after Silva, Mata and Modric he was the most creative player in the PL in terms of chances and assists.

None of this is an argument in favour of keeping him.
If we sign quality in the realm of Cazorla and Sahin then I'm happy.
Still wouldn't mind if he stayed alongside them either.

Klaus

y va marquer wrote:
Clearly Robin did not score 37 solo goals but the point you were making is that it's the quality of the midfield that makes a striker

That's actually not the point I'm making. I suppose that the midfield always makes the striker to some degree, but mainly the point is that a superior midfield breeds superior football. You could put a better striker in Juventus and Dortmund and they'd be a couple goals better off for it, but their game still emanates from the centre of the field. Same with Spain. Their formation during the Euros was all about statistical calculation. They have a better pass percentage in the final third with their current shape. del Bosque found that they were playing a bit more direct with a striker, but they still didn't convert more chances. They actually finished off attacks more often without Torres on the field, with a shot every 6th minute and one on target from inside the area every 10th.

y va marquer wrote:
I know it's massively unpopular to say anything positive about Van Persie these days.
I've lost pretty much all the respect I had for him but if I'm being fair I think this notion that he was only good because the team was geared to feed him goals is nonsense.

Robin had an outstanding individual season last year. I don't think anyone has argued otherwise. We played a very predictable and straightforward kind of football where every ball went looking for him in the box though.

Coombs

I didn't mean to say you were wrong when saying Klaus was right, Y, but when you look back on a great number of RVP's goals, for instance, they were scored with him touching the ball only once or twice. Not too many mazy runs with a finish at the end. I think Walcott and Song were 25% of the reason why he was top scorer last year. Great movement, yes, great finishing, check, great control, for sure, but what good is all that when you don't get the ball in the right positions at the right time?

Tactically the game is so advanced, and technically the margin between players is so small, that without a midfield that is either superior physically or technically with an effective tactical deployment, you're going nowhere no matter how good your strikers are.

y va marquer

Firstly Klaus, I confused your orginal point with Coombs' interpretation of that point 🙂

Secondly, Coombs saying that van Persie was good in spite of the midfield was not meant to be an argument for relying solely on one striker for goals or any kind of assertion that he did it all on his own 🙂

Generally speaking I stick to my view that we need at least one striker capable of scoring 20+ goals.
By definition for me that would mean a striker who even on an off day for himself and the team as a whole can create that goal out of nothing, or grab that one chance that comes his way.

That's about as lucid as I can be on the subject 🙂

squallkid

We need a top midfield and a top striker. If we had both we would be a fantastic team

Does that satisfy all sides of the argument?

y va marquer

🙂 Think we're all vaguely of the same opinion on this anyway.

Back to the topic of should we sell or force him to stay, check out this insanity.

Juventus are set to launch a stunning SEVENTY million pound attempt to lure Robin van Persie to Italy.
Giuseppe Marotta, the Serie A champions' general manager, has held further talks with van Persie’s representatives and made it clear they will top any offer made by rivals Manchester United.
Van Persie will also be offered a five-year deal worth £190,000 a week AFTER tax
And Juve have told his agents that they will make a £20m offer to Arsenal for his services.

Courtesy of John Cross.
Sell him for £20m obviously.
Always suspicious that it's complete fabrication when the words "lure" or "swoop" are used in these articles.

http://m.mirror.co.uk/article?id=1190295/

Captain

I can't reasonably believe that report.

y va marquer

Me neither actually.

Pepe LeFrits

y va marquer wrote:
Always suspicious that it's complete fabrication when the words "lure" or "swoop" are used in these articles.

Reminds me of paedophiles disguised as houses.

Captain

Lagos wrote:
Captain wrote:
I can't reasonably believe that report.

I can't unreasonably believe that report.

😆

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