van Persie sold to Man United: Page 108 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

van Persie sold to Man United

Rex

I agree Lagos, that the problem remains unsolved. Thankfully UEFA is trying to solve it with their FFP initative.

Mirth

Don Pacifico wrote:
General Mirth wrote:
No one's seriously blamed him for wanting to leave either - not on this forum anyway. I think most people expected it when he hadn't signed a contract by March, the outrage is fueled by the way he's gone about it.

Some people definitely feel he's morally obligated to stay. As with every job you look out for number one and it's no different in football.

So, to flip the coin, how much do you value loyalty when it does occur?

Enough to give Jenkinson a chance?

Rex

Nah. Players should only be at Arsenal on merit. I expect no loyalty at all. The problem with RVP in this situation, and Cesc last year, is that he is not at the end of his contract. He is an employee at Arsenal. Releasing that statement was NOT what you can expect from an employee IMO.

RVP is well within his right to not want to sign a new contract, but until his contract here is up he has no business realeasing statements that are harmful to his employers or refusing to do the job he gets handsomely paid to do.

I have no problems with Nasri's departure last summer. You can all look back and I promise that you will not find me ever having called him anything derogatory. He kept his mouth shut, did everything the club asked him to do, and was prepared to play out his contract. Now THAT was the professional thing to do.

Mirth

I agree, I think Nasri gets the most stick but he was willing to see out his contract, train during pre-season and made himself available to play against Liverpool. He didn't talk to the media either. Plus his deal was the best one we got - 24m for a player with one year left was pretty fucking sweet.

Ultimately he did the bare minimum but that's more than Fabregas and van Persie have done.

Shady

Nasri gets stick because of the constant jibes at the club since he left. Instead of celebrating winning the Premier League, he used the opportunity to have a dig at us.

He also flirted with United on live television.

Mirth

Lagos wrote:
It's all about aligned interests and enlightened self interests. But assuming the concept exists in today's football, the question GM is what is and how do you measure loyalty? Is Wenger here because he is loyal or because he is the best paid manager and has more control than he would get anywhere else? Is Jenkinson here because he is loyal or because we are one of the few clubs that would give him exposure at his age? You wanna reward his "loyalty"?.........bench him for a whole season and see if he doesn't start to think his future lies elsewhere!

That's not testing his loyalty, that's testing his stupidity. I'd leave Arsenal as well if I was dicked around for no obvious reason by my boss.

Mirth

Maybe loyalty is the wrong word for it but there are people who are more decent and grateful for the opportunities afforded to them no matter what. That doesn't mean they have to stay at the club/job for ever as long as they acknowledge that it works both ways.

Of course it's really hard to find them, both in football and just generally. For all I know Jenkinson could go down the Ashley Cole route.

Rex

Shady Shakes wrote:
Nasri gets stick because of the constant jibes at the club since he left. Instead of celebrating winning the Premier League, he used the opportunity to have a dig at us.

I may have done the same at 24 if 20k+ fans were singing I was a cunt.

Timbob

Life/work/love/relationships/jobs, it's not all about looking after number 1. That's how children think and behave.

Ray

Vieira, Cole, Reyes, Fabregas, Nasri, Van persie, Hleb, Flamini etc a long list of players who have left on sour notes or wanting to achieve success elsewhere, and i think the main problem lies with wenger's friendly attitudes with his players. Even look at when rooney released that statement he got rugby tackled by scholes and ticked off fergie the next day in training, whilst at arsenal rvp is getting star treatment and friendly conversation with theo with wenger watching. Until wenger learns to get tough with certain players until they earn his trust and loyalty, this will continue to happen. Walcott and Song up next.

Reading wengers statement of how great rvp was last season is embarrassing and evidence that he is most definitely leaving this summer to the highest bidder.

Mirth

SamDaGooner wrote:
Vieira, Cole, Reyes, Fabregas, Nasri, Van persie, Hleb, Flamini etc a long list of players who have left on sour notes or wanting to achieve success elsewhere, and i think the main problem lies with wenger's friendly attitudes with his players. Even look at when rooney released that statement he got rugby tackled by scholes and ticked off fergie the next day in training, whilst at arsenal rvp is getting star treatment and friendly conversation with theo with wenger watching. Until wenger learns to get tough with certain players until they earn his trust and loyalty, this will continue to happen. Walcott and Song up next.

Reading wengers statement of how great rvp was last season is embarrassing and evidence that he is most definitely leaving this summer to the highest bidder.

Not all of them left for success, some of them just wanted to cash in on one good season and cash up.

As for Rooney, he's on a contract worth 220k a week now. Yeah, they sure showed him!

Biggus

Nela wrote:
Yeah, many would say it's classy, which I suppose it is. But it also annoys me a bit. I'd love for him to rip into them sometime, just a little. Even if it's in a more subtle way.

It is classy but it is also very naive, like his tactics.

Ray

Doesnt matter, when rooney came out saying he didnt think united will win, fergie didnt come out and say what an exceptional player rooney is, wenger is far too friendly with his players. And at the end of the day city were offering the same but united still "won".

y va marquer

Biggus wrote:
Nela wrote:
Yeah, many would say it's classy, which I suppose it is. But it also annoys me a bit. I'd love for him to rip into them sometime, just a little. Even if it's in a more subtle way.

It is classy but it is also very naive, like his tactics.

Naive? Why? Wenger might chose to romantacise and hold his counsel but he's not naive.
He actually knows the players as opposed to having formed one eyed opinions on them based on random interviews and bizarre personal bias, he also knows the whole story about what's going on behind the scenes, and probably sees his players as more than pantomime villains to be slagged off in public.
He's right not cut loose and slate them.
Better off keeping his cool.

squallkid

This isn't just about van Persie, when I say "this" I mean how upset people are. It's the entire situation at the club where we have seen a top player leave every season since 2005, I'm not going to list the names here because we all know them.

There is something rotten with the way we go about keeping our players and to my mind it has very little to do with trophies because we've had players wanting to leave us after we'd just won the league title, players like vieira, overmars, anelka and petit all left or wanted to leave when we were at the peak of our powers.

It's like something clicks in their heads and they want to leave, whether that be for the money or to return to their boyhood club I just don't know. What we have got to stop doing is let other clubs bully us in the transfer market, look at the downright insulting bids that we received for van persie, the best player in England last season and no team can come up with 15 million pounds.

I really don't care how many years he's got left on his contract, his injury problems, his age, none of that. Far lesser players have gone for a much higher price and if we sell him for anything less than 25 million pounds I'd be very disappointed. Disappointed in Van Persie for weakening our position with his public statement and disappointed in the board for not just saying look 25 million pounds or he's going nowhere. Man Utd bid 30 million pounds for Lucas, the Brazilian kid who has proved nothing in Europe or the world stage but yet want to bid 10 million pounds for the best striker in Europe who has performed year after year when fit? That is just taking the piss and I hope the club told them where they could put that bid.

I'm neither angry or happy about van persie's statement, he can say and do whatever he feels like. The romance in football died a long time ago and to the majority of these players, it's a job. Love for your club and team mates is just a phrase fans use, players kiss the badge all the time and almost never mean it, players give lip service to their current employer saying how they always wanted to play for this club, how much they love the fans or how much they appreciate what the manager's done for them. At the end of the day they will all look out for their own interests, each and every single one of them. I'm afraid it will be a long time before we find a player who loves the club the way tony adams loves it.

flobaba

He seems to believe that since he has shown faith in them early in their careers, the players ought to reciprocate and stay loyal to him regardless of how it may limit said careers - That's naive.

There's a time to use the carrot and a time to use the stick. Wenger is all about the carrot when it comes to talking publicly about his players.

y va marquer

Maybe so. Not sure how laying into Van Persie and exposing him as some treacherous Judas would improve matters, or benefit the club in any way.

Anyway Van Persie is only relevant now in terms of how much we can realise in ££££ when we sell him.
Wish he was gone already and we were on the road to spending that money on Jovetic / Carzola / exciting new signing that gets us all jumping up and down 🙂

Biggus

Humble Rex wrote:
Nah. Players should only be at Arsenal on merit. I expect no loyalty at all. The problem with RVP in this situation, and Cesc last year, is that he is not at the end of his contract. He is an employee at Arsenal. Releasing that statement was NOT what you can expect from an employee IMO.

RVP is well within his right to not want to sign a new contract, but until his contract here is up he has no business realeasing statements that are harmful to his employers or refusing to do the job he gets handsomely paid to do.

I would go further than that Rex, van Pussy like Fabregrease was a captain of the team, now maybe I'm a bit old fashioned, but I still believe that is a great honour, it shows that your manager has great faith in you and your team mates look up to you and respect your charisma.
Think of all the great managerial/captain double teams of the past.
But of course with position comes responsibility, as captain your job is to transpose the managers will onto the pitch, give fellow players a gee up, arm around the shoulder or bollocking as required, and of course as a standard bearer of the club to the supporters and (sigh) sponsors too I suppose no more drug fuelled orgies with team mates wives.

But there again, who is responsible for denigrating the position of captain in the club post Vieira?

Lagos wrote:
......but then you raise a good point, at what point is expecting Cesc, Nasri, RVP etc to stay and become "Arsenal legends" a test of their stupidity? I mean we all know they aren't going to win anything here and they won't get the highest wage their talents are worth.

And why didn't Fabregas Nasri Ade RvP win anything while they were here?
They're all very good players coveted by top clubs- I think we all know the answer.

squallkid

Ade was a cunt

Nasri bottled it when it matter

RVP was never fit before 2010-11

Fabregas had to do it all on his own.

There's your answer Biggs

Biggus

timBO! wrote:
Life/work/love/relationships/jobs, it's not all about looking after number 1. That's how children think and behave.

Err isn't a player who leaves here to win trophies and earn more money looking after his career and his family?

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