van Persie sold to Man United: Page 109 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

van Persie sold to Man United

FantasticMrFox

In this instance he is in no way protecting RVP. We were fucked by that statement and Wenger needs to maintain some sort of bargaining position. He has to hold the position of if we aren't offered the right amount we wont sell.

y va marquer

Exactly Fox.

squallkid

The right amount being what in everybody's eyes?

31 goals last season for me = 25 million pounds or he goes nowhere

I never have a problem with what Wenger says, he only wants what is best for the club, always has and always will. I thought people would appreciate that more in this current generation of Adebayors and van persies

lorddulaarsenal

Wenger has my full support on this.

goon

Lagos wrote:
otfgoon wrote:
So what? I have a right to be a massive cock, it doesn't mean everyone else has to like it or even accept it.

you are just butressing my point. everybody has free will and the freedom to exercise it. people don't have to like the outcome but he doesn't owe anybody anything!

Well that's a matter of opinion isn't it? If the club didn't stick by him despite his constant injuries where would he be now? It's not like he's stuck by us for the last few years scoring 30 odd goals a season and has finally had enough of our failure, he's been on the fucking treatment table partially responsible for our failure.

The way I look at it our patience in him has not been paid back. Now as you and Don pointed out, he's well within his right to look after himself and fuck off elsewhere to win things before he goes completely grey but I'm not gonna sit here and say he doesn't deserve any critisism for it.

goon

Biggus wrote:
Err isn't a player who leaves here to win trophies and earn more money looking after his career and his family?

Well his wife want's to stay in London and as Robin said it has nothing to do with money so he's obviously just putting himself first.

Biggus

@ Otf, don't they have shops in Manchester, I'm sure she'll cry all the way to Tiffany's.

@ Y va, Flobs is correct-

flobaba wrote:
He seems to believe that since he has shown faith in them early in their careers, the players ought to reciprocate and stay loyal to him regardless of how it may limit said careers - That's naive.

There's a time to use the carrot and a time to use the stick. Wenger is all about the carrot when it comes to talking publicly about his players.

That is the secret of good management, be it business or team sports.
When you have to transmit your will to a bunch of diverse people you can't treat them all the same, some are rebellious some lack confidence etc people are all different and they respond to different stimuli- The carrot or the stick.

Wenger acts like a parent not a boss, giving unconditional love, and then being saddened and wounded when its betrayed, but still pleading for their children.

Mirth

Nah, Wenger's got fed up and turfed out players as well. He's not as domineering as Ferguson but it has been known to happen.

The situation is much harder when you're trying to appease your best player to stay though. Whichever approach, the odds are he'll leave anyway.

Shouldn't Gazidis be doing something to persuade vP? He's suppose to be the 'negotiator' and all that. Or is he still on holiday?

Biggus

@ GM, But thats not a managerial system- It's a break down of the system.
As I've said many times before- everyone's got a breaking point, even the most patient parents get fed up having to bail out their drug addicted/violent kids and bring them to de-tox.

squallkid wrote:
Ade was a cunt

Nasri bottled it when it matter

RVP was never fit before 2010-11

Fabregas had to do it all on his own.

There's your answer Biggs

You know the story about the girl watching her beloved marching with the rest of the soldiers?
She remarks: They're all out of step except my Johnny.

y va marquer

Don't agree at all Biggus.
Never bought this myth of Wenger as some idiot pushover grandad, and I would not presume that him choosing not to tear strips off players in front of the media is proof of anything.
In my experience all good managers maintain a united front as regards their team in public, what they do internally is usually quite different.
In fact I reckon managers who publicly turn on their players are quite weak and pathetic.

squallkid

I've heard about the analogy Biggus but I don't quite get it in this context.

Who is johnny?

Wenger?

The club?

goon

General Mirth wrote:
Nah, Wenger's got fed up and turfed out players as well. He's not as domineering as Ferguson but it has been known to happen.

The situation is much harder when you're trying to appease your best player to stay though. Whichever approach, the odds are he'll leave anyway.

Well all Ferguson could do in Rooney's case is chuck a crap load of money at him, same with Ferdinand a few years back and Keane a few years before him. In the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether your soft or domineering, these situations will crop up.

I think we all know it's mostly down to success, hence why Wenger's approach was never a problem when we were winning.

Biggus

y va marquer wrote:
Don't agree at all Biggus.
Never bought this myth of Wenger as some idiot pushover grandad, and I would not presume that him choosing not to tear strips off players in front of the media is proof of anything.
In my experience all good managers maintain a united front as regards their team in public, what they do internally is usually quite different.
In fact I reckon managers who publicly turn on their players are quite weak and pathetic.

I never said he was a senile old fool.

Oh wait......... maybe I did once or twice, but he's certainly no push over and when the time comes for brave Sir Robin to walk the plank Wengy will be holding the sword point.
Look at the patterns Y, he is way too over indulgent with crap lazy players on the pitch and he is way too over indulgent with prima donna star players too thats an error in management.

Wenger was an excellent judge of when players were past it but unfortunately he can't apply that to himself.

squallkid wrote:
Who is johnny?

Wenger, and you're his adoring girlfriend. 😆

flobaba

y va marquer wrote:
In fact I reckon managers who publicly turn on their players are quite weak and pathetic.

Mancini v Tevez / Balotelli

Jose Mourinho v Carvalho

Pep v Ibra

Fergie v everyone who fucks with him

All these coaches are neither weak, nor pathetic. They just would never let a player talk shit bout them or their tactics or the club without putting him firmly in his place.

goon

But what did 'putting them in their place' achieve?

Tevez went on holiday during the season, Balotelli is still a nutcase who he can't control, Ibrahimovich just left and Carvalho turned into a mess.

y va marquer

@ Biggus
Errors of judgement as regards players, their character and ability - no argument there, he's made them -but we were discussing the particular point of carrot, stick and public condemnation 🙂.

The way I see it - once a manager says something negative publicly about a player he cedes control of the situation to the media.
Creates a volatile scenario which he can't manage, which is about as bad as it gets in terms of managing 🙂
To sum up - his approach to public statements about his players is one of the areas where I think Wenger gets it right.

@ flobaba
Mancini v Tevez? Tevez mocked him and the club for months and he still took him back and stuck him straight into the first team.
It paid off because he performed but it certainly wasn't evidence of Mancini putting Tevez in his place.
Fergie? He caved into Rooney's gonna sign for City stunt.

Rex

Wenger is easily one of the classiest managers around.

Biggus

y va marquer wrote:
@ Biggus
Errors of judgement as regards players, their character and ability - no argument there, he's made them -but we were discussing the particular point of carrot, stick and public condemnation 🙂.

The way I see it - once a manager says something negative publicly about a player he cedes control of the situation to the media.
Creates a volatile scenario which he can't manage, which is about as bad as it gets in terms of managing 🙂
To sum up - his approach to public statements about his players is one of the areas where I think Wenger gets it right.

Oh sorry, I was talking about initial and day to day management.
When relations have broken down so much that it turns into a public slagging match as I say the whole system has broken down and all bets are off.

Wenger Mourinho and Fergi are all good at protecting their players, it's just that with Wenger he takes a virtue to an excess and it becomes a vice.

squallkid

@ Biggus

shrugs Somebody has got to get behind the manager, with all of these players stabbing us in the back. Shady shareholders in usmanov, fights at board level, billionaire owners at Chelsea and Man City marginalizing us. The one person, who throughout all of it that loves the club and will always look out for its best interests, even putting those interests above personal glory, is Arsene Wenger. I don't understand how fans can praise van Persie and Fabregas etc when they leave even though they are as much to blame for the past 8 years as him. These players get people sticking up for them saying they can understand why they want to leave etc etc but the man who has devoted the past 15 years of his life to building the club up gets insulted on a daily basis by his own fanbase. We could get Mourinho in here and with this current squad he wouldn't win the title, blame needs to be laid at the transfer policy.

Patters

It's a tricky one because i don't think wenger is some altruist that isn't benefitting financially from running the club on a tight budget but at the same time I'm not convinced anyone other than Arsene truly gives a fuck about the Arsenal. I think he desperately wants the club to be great - just as Dein, Usmanov, PHW, Fergie; whatever cunt you ask - will say. But I am finding it hard to accept he has these strong principles when, by his own admission, he is paid 'handsomely' for making the club money. Anyone who goes to games regularly can see Arsene is visibly annoyed but if he's happy with no change higher up and the money involved then I have no time for him either.

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