The 2012 African Cup of Nations: Page 13 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

The 2012 African Cup of Nations

Mirth

Klaus wrote:
Gervinho will improve his finish (and by doing so he'll also become more confident in situations like these) given some time. I remember an interview Adebayor did where he talked about how he grew up playing street football without any goalposts. They played on a real grass field with anything even resembling posts once a month or so. It was a shock for him when he moved to Europe and had to score regularly. He could dribble three opponents with ease but he couldn't take a proper shot. I suspect it's the same in Gervinho's case.

I thought Adebayor was a shocking footballer when he first turned up, worse than Gervinho. Although he was a couple of years younger.

Henry took him under his wing though, by the end of his season season he turned into a decent player.

Timbob

yuv wrote:
No, I think Ricky is right - Gervinho has to shoot, shoot and shoot more.

You dont think he does loads of various different shooting and finishing drills in practice already? He plays football pretty much every single day of his life, doubt an extra few shots in training is going to make much difference tbh.

What he 100% needs is a change of mentality. Improvements in composure and belief in match situations.

Ricky1985

General Mirth wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
The more you practice and improve your technique the better it holds up under pressure, and the more confident you are when stepping up as a result.

Who's to say he doesn't practice? You might have fantastic ability but you can still be nervous, it just reduces the odds. Person A may need 50 hours of practice to feel confident but Person B may feel nervous even after a 100 hours.

And you can't manufacture the pressure of a cup final no matter how hard you train.

This is just about penalties btw, I agree he's a very poor finisher.

Come on mate, it's Gervinho we're talking about.

He lacks the technique required to put it where he wants to when striking a football, the knowledge that he can't makes him nervous when he tries.

Captain

I'm just going to point out that Bergkamp gave up taking penalties after his miss against ManU in their treble season. There's a bloke with balls and technique to spare and he said "fuck it, I'm never taking a penalty again".

You boys need to play more football or something.

Klaus

Ricky1985 wrote:
He lacks the technique required to put it where he wants to when striking a football

The neat thing is that you can actually teach stuff like that to a high degree even if the player in question isn't a natural at striking the ball.

Ricky1985

General Mirth wrote:
I thought Adebayor was a shocking footballer when he first turned up, worse than Gervinho. Although he was a couple of years younger.

Henry took him under his wing though, by the end of his season season he turned into a decent player.

He worked his nuts off in training. Practised his finishing relentlessly; left foot, right foot, head, volley, side foot, one-v-one, everything.

And the improvement was clear for all to see.

I think that's the difference between the good players and the great players. Adebayor works like a dog for a season and makes strides forward in his game, then stops, Cristiano Ronaldo or Dennis Bergkamp work like a dog for most of their careers - and never stop making improvements.

Ricky1985

Klaus wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
He lacks the technique required to put it where he wants to when striking a football

The neat thing is that you can actually teach stuff like that to a high degree even if the player in question isn't a natural at striking the ball.

No such thing, in my opinion.

Mirth

Ricky1985 wrote:
General Mirth wrote:
Who's to say he doesn't practice? You might have fantastic ability but you can still be nervous, it just reduces the odds. Person A may need 50 hours of practice to feel confident but Person B may feel nervous even after a 100 hours.

And you can't manufacture the pressure of a cup final no matter how hard you train.

This is just about penalties btw, I agree he's a very poor finisher.

Come on mate, it's Gervinho we're talking about.

He lacks the technique required to put it where he wants to when striking a football, the knowledge that he can't makes him nervous when he tries.

I can't agree, there's very little technique involved in taking a penalty.

Ricky1985 wrote:
General Mirth wrote:
I thought Adebayor was a shocking footballer when he first turned up, worse than Gervinho. Although he was a couple of years younger.

Henry took him under his wing though, by the end of his season season he turned into a decent player.

He worked his nuts off in training. Practised his finishing relentlessly; left foot, right foot, head, volley, side foot, one-v-one, everything.

And the improvement was clear for all to see.

I think that's the difference between the good players and the great players. Adebayor works like a dog for a season and makes strides forward in his game, then stops, Cristiano Ronaldo or Dennis Bergkamp work like a dog for most of their careers - and never stop making improvements.

Said with a massive benefit of hindsight, you never hear about the players who work hard but still don't make it, do you?

Patters

Gervinho had a good game overall. It's unfair to say - as the media will - that he cost us country the tournament because he should really have won it for them if Drogba had converted the penalty Gerv won in normal time. Gervinho, as usual, caused problems with his direct running.

I feel sorry for Gervinho. But I don't have too much sympathy for players who aren't men. Gervinho is not a man. He has no balls. How on earth, as a forward for one of the top clubs in the world, can you let Toure and other defenders go ahead of you? You have to man up and take a penalty. You could clearly see Drogba had to shake him before Gerv stepped up. The IC bench were shouting "Gervi" well before Gervinho decided to take one. Look, it's easy for us to sit behind the comfort of our own keyboards and criticise the guy - I get that, I really do, but ultimately this is why you want to play at the highest level...to be part of matches like these. If you are so crippled with fear that you cannot take the pressure, then you will continue to keep bottling the one-on-ones that come your way. It's not the fact that he missed his penalty...it's the fact that he was so against taking one. He otherwise had a good tournament but he let himself down right at the end. And nobody is the least bit surprised.

Where to go from here? This is where Wenger and managers earn their money. The arm around the shoulder isn't going to do it. It's tough-love time. Wenger needs to tell Gervinho that it's up to him if he wants to make a success of this season. We are still in the FA Cup, we are still in the Champions League. If you want to turn it around, man up and start looking to find the net as forwards are supposed to do.

RonBurgundy

Captain wrote:
I'm just going to point out that Bergkamp gave up taking penalties after his miss against ManU in their treble season. There's a bloke with balls and technique to spare and he said "fuck it, I'm never taking a penalty again".

You boys need to play more football or something.

Bergkamp also refused to fly. Does that mean it's okay for our current players to refuse to fly?

If you really don't think Gervinho has confidence/composure issues then you're deluded.

yuv

There's no question about the mental side, Tim, but also not so much you can do about it. There's much to do, on the other hand, about what your emphasis in training is. That they shoot a lot - great, but every player has his special thing to improve, and the top professionals come in and give the extra work.

It could be claimed Gervinho's technical ability in shooting is just beyond repair (I think Kami said something like that). I don't know - perhaps even that is true. What is certain is that he has to work on it, cos it ain't nearly good enough. I personally believe he can improve that by quite a bit, and then there's also a mental bonus. Knowing he can't shoot must work on his mind all the time (isn't this what we saw before the penalty? we were shaking ourselves - what do you think he went through?). Must train shooting, simple.

Klaus

Ricky1985 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
The neat thing is that you can actually teach stuff like that to a high degree even if the player in question isn't a natural at striking the ball.

No such thing, in my opinion.

There are people who figure it out right from the start and then there are those who have a hard time trying to get it, just like in other aspects of football. Half of what people refer to as "technique" is just body balance. Same thing applies to shooting. It's the other half that separates a Henry or a Bergkamp from a Jermaine Defoe.

Captain

Ron Burgundy wrote:
Captain wrote:
I'm just going to point out that Bergkamp gave up taking penalties after his miss against ManU in their treble season. There's a bloke with balls and technique to spare and he said "fuck it, I'm never taking a penalty again".

You boys need to play more football or something.

Bergkamp also refused to fly. Does that mean it's okay for our current players to refuse to fly?

If you really don't think Gervinho has confidence/composure issues then you're deluded.

Is that a serious question? 😆

Klaus

😆

Timbob

Ricky1985 wrote:
General Mirth wrote:
Who's to say he doesn't practice? You might have fantastic ability but you can still be nervous, it just reduces the odds. Person A may need 50 hours of practice to feel confident but Person B may feel nervous even after a 100 hours.

And you can't manufacture the pressure of a cup final no matter how hard you train.

This is just about penalties btw, I agree he's a very poor finisher.

Come on mate, it's Gervinho we're talking about.

He lacks the technique required to put it where he wants to when striking a football, the knowledge that he can't makes him nervous when he tries.

From 12 yards he can put it on a sixpence Ricky. Dont doubt it. I've played with plenty of good standard non league players who train once a week and can ping a ball in to the top corner at decent pace from 12, 18 even 25 yards, pretty much at will. Gervinho trains 2 hours a day 300+ days a year and is a £10 million footballer. His technique is absolutely good enough to strike a good dead ball. It's when you add in a 6ft 3 supremely athletic goalkeeper, 50'000 fans, the world's press, the hopes of a nation and 5 TV crews that he struggles.

lorddulaarsenal

Best way for him to sort himself out is to stick it to spurs

Ricky1985

He just doesn't have faith in his ball striking ability, it all comes back to that.

There will be nerves as a result of the pressure of the kick, of the moment, but if you're confident in your ability that's all there will be, and you'll probably handle it - as most of the players tonight did. If you're not then there's a mountain load of fear pressing down on you, knowing you can't pick a spot and hit it there.

I've had the situation a few different times in a few different sports myself, and I've seen it a million times in team mates or fellow competitors. If you know you can do something you are much more likely to to do it under pressure, if you're trying to wing it, all the 'confidence' in the world won't stop you from bricking it when the moment comes.

I've wilted a couple of times and I've pulled a few really good things off a few times. And it's always linked to my underlying ability at something and my belief in my ability to do it. I think you'd find most pros who face the sort of pressure I have no experience of at all, would tell you much the same.

Proficiency at something is worth more than all the bravado in the world.

RonBurgundy

Captain wrote:
Ron Burgundy wrote:
Bergkamp also refused to fly. Does that mean it's okay for our current players to refuse to fly?

If you really don't think Gervinho has confidence/composure issues then you're deluded.

Is that a serious question? 😆

You are a nonsense 😆

I know you're WUM-ing (as usual), but my point is that just because Bergkamp did it, doesn't mean it's right.

lorddulaarsenal

Gervinho looks like he'll struggle to put weight on, but adding a few pounds would do wonders for him

Timbob

yuv wrote:
There's no question about the mental side, Tim, but also not so much you can do about it.

There's loads you can do. It's called sports psychology.

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