The Aaron Ramsey Player Thread: Page 44 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Aaron Ramsey Player Thread

Coombs

Bah. I don't think you can be a pro footballer without said picture. It's how quickly you act on it that counts.

Mello

M'vila and Javi Martinez are both encouraging in that aspect

yuv

Coombs wrote:
Bah. I don't think you can be a pro footballer without said picture. It's how quickly you act on it that counts.

So - you actually think that all footballers have a good reading of the game all the time (otherwise they don't even play in the league)? If it's a kind of a base line, I wonder how low it actually is. But even if we think "all qualify to a certain level good enough for the game as a rule", surely you don't exclude that there are levels, and that there could be significant differences?
Also, I don't see what you gain in explaining it by limiting the reaction time to after receiving the ball - why can't (or isn't indeed) the reading of the game be something that happens all the time; and advantages in making your move can be gained by a good reading pre getting the ball (as a head start kind of thing), coupled with fast translation of that knowledge with skills in making the move.

I guess what you say makes sense in specific aspects or situations. But I can't see it in this general form.

Tactics

Lagos wrote:
Captain wrote:
Speaking of Mikel, he has looked class back in that screening role. It's interesting to me, because he always seemed a player who may enjoy a bit more freedom like Essien or indeed Song but apparently not.

Mikel was an attacking midfielder and an extremely good one at that, there was a good reason why Manu and Chelsea fought over him. However He elected to go to Chelsea where Jose turned him into a Makalele clone killing his natural instincts. The Mikel you see today is nothing like the Mikel pre his arrival at Chelsea. That Mikel was at the time (a world youth tournament featuring all three, can't remember which year probably 2005) was ranked alonside Messi and Fabregas as the future of football. It's a strange one because you'd think his natural instincts would still be there but it's completely gone!

Yeah it was in 2005, remember that tournament like it was yesterday. Fabregas didn't really shine for Spain, Llorente did. Mikel and Messi(he started as a sub) were definitely the tournament's two best players. Nigeria were the better team in the final but lost due to some careless defensive play, Mikel was the best player on the pitch(think Messi was voted MOTM though, he converted 2 penalties).

SONG:

I think some of you are a bit harsh on him, he's got good vision for a DM. What he does wrong is his tendency to hog the ball, however he mostly atones for it by playing some good forward passes between the lines. If you hog the ball then you should be able to advance play by playing good forward(penetrative) passes, Song does it(Hleb was the same, did it even better), this is where i had problems with Nasri; he hogged the ball and then passed it sideways or backwards - a big NO NO.

Generally I think Song is a good a ball player, he's very skilful and can play balls that turnover a midfield.

But but but......

He's very frustrating without the ball. His positioning is quite poor and he doesn't read the game well enough to enable him cut out danger before it develops - the likes of buquets and Carrick are so much better than him in this area. Indeed he can easily gets bypassed in midfield at atimes and his tackling skill is average at best. Basically Song's defensive game is not up to the standard that's required of an elite DM. He'd have developed into one(elite DM) by now if his positioning was good or he had a lot of pace, one could have easily compensated for the other, sadly he's got none. However there is still hope for him(positioning can be taught), Van Bommel used to be very productive going forward but switched off a lot defensively(without the ball), took him years to iron out his flaws and I'd say has developed into a top DM over the years.

On the plus side, Song wins you a lot of headers(don't underestimate the importanace of this for a DM in England) and also wins you a lot of 50-50 duels. We'll be fine in midfield as long as we partner him with a tactical midfielder(Arteta, Wilshere).

Btw, As frustrating as he's without the ball, he's so much better defensively when he sits and doesn't go up and down the pitch. Udinese away clearly illustrates that; he was wank in the 1st half as a box to box midfielder but absolute top class when he mainly sat in the 2nd half. His defensive game in 2008/2009 & 2009/2010(played as a holding midfilder in both seasons) were far better than his last two seasons as a box to box midfielder - further confirmation of my earlier point.

Doc

Funny people cant even agree on were they hate Songs game, for some its with the ball & some without. 🙂 Reality is he is an all round good footballer who has improved his game every year for the last 3 years ever since stepping in for the Mr "I am a winner" Denilson. Yes he is not quick is his passing as Cesc but he has done well on the creative side this season were the AM has been usless. The overall speed of play has dropped from the team due to the drop in quality... Defensivly we have been very solid with Song & Arteta in the middle.

Klaus

For me it's easy. He's one of the two best box to box midfielders in the league despite his flaws, which some people insist on making way too much of while others pretend aren't even there. We'd be fucked defensively without him.

Timbob

If he was at another club most of us would be crying out for us to buy him, and I say that as one of those that is consistently driven mad at some of his dumb decisions. Fact is though, we probably wouldn't be able to afford him if he was somewhere else.

Patters

Timbo wrote:
If he was at another club most of us would be crying out for us to buy him, and I say that as one of those that is consistently driven mad at some of his dumb decisions. Fact is though, we probably wouldn't be able to afford him if he was somewhere else.

I'd go along with that.

He does irritate me at times when he gets caught in possession trying to find his way out instead of getting rid of it early. I get the feeling he thinks he's better than he is with his ball skills and passing accuracy. I'd rather he was more patient and not going for the killer balls every time he has the ball 35 yards out.

BUT: Szczesny, Vermaelen, Song, Van Persie - that's a spine. They all have remarkable physical presence on the pitch. Opposition players don't try messing with them. Song is an intimidating player to play against. He took Yaya Toure out the game very early on when we played Man City.

Captain

It's a fair comment and only natural I suppose as we watch these guys play 45-50 full games per season. I think I've mentioned it before, but most of my non-arsenal mates rate Song much higher than any gooner I've met.

Qwiss

Song is good enough to play 40+ games a season in a title winning side. As is Arteta. Hopefully Jack can get fit and prove capable of the same at AM because currently neither Rosicky or Ramsey are at that level.

I'd still like us to sign someone like M'Vila so that we have someone to come in and play along side Arteta and Sagna in that deep centre midfield/half box to box/not suite a DM role.

Woolwichgooner

I have followed Coquelin since his youth days, and he is a top top top talent, the lad has really grown as well the last couple of years.

He will get more game time next year and we wont be adding any midfielders.

Clrnc

Klaus wrote:
For me it's easy. He's one of the two best box to box midfielders in the league despite his flaws, which some people insist on making way too much of while others pretend aren't even there. We'd be fucked defensively without him.

Exactly.

yuv

Ramsey is so absent he doesn't even get mentioned in his own thread.

But as this became a "the problem Aaron Ramsey embodies" thread, and an excuse to use this as well in the recent combined effort to solve the Song enigma, and a good place for loose musings, the spine of the team thing interests me. And in relation to it Song, and his adequate place in this respect.

When I think of team skeleton, I have Kos, Wilshere and VP. That could seem strange, as it never really happened, but still (when planning a team, this need not seem so disturbing). I then may add "wings", perhaps part of the skeleton, but not as essential. There would be Chez, TV (and perhaps Arteta and Song). Ox will be a natural addition to that in time.

This made me think of what Jack's return will do to song, an aspect less mentioned than Jack and Ramsey or Art. But it could have a serious effect: Song's early tendency to go forward didn't help in focusing his game, and help him improve and sustain a good level where he's most needed. But at least this year, he was actually encouraged - and even proved very useful - to help creating, and that inevitably took some of his much needed focus on mastering the position he's most valuable in. Jack's return may relieve that burden, remove the excuse, and perhaps help him focus.

If that works, I'll maybe see Song as part of the skeleton. For now, though sometimes valuable, he's not. In fact I think Art recently was.
If these 3 will settle together, we just might be enjoying ourselves.

Claudius

I'm actually relatively confident with a spine of:
Szczesny, Vermaelen, Koscielny, Song, Arteta, Wilshere, RVP
I have never seen that group in action together, but I think there is enough quality there.
The next step now is to solve the wide positions, where only Sagna is of equivalent quality to the spinal players.

banduan

I'm fine with having a solid winger / wide AM with Theo, Gervinho, Ryo and Oxlade all fighting for the same spot or playing during the cups.

Coombs

If we play with a wide-AM on the left, then Gibbs has to step it up big time and provide width AND defend...huge role on the left there. Though, I suppose I'd feel better about it if Verm was more reliable and cut the mistakes. We can't have our entire left side, including the centreback, attacking like maniacs either.

Mirth

Claudius wrote:
I'm actually relatively confident with a spine of:
Szczesny, Vermaelen, Koscielny, Song, Arteta, Wilshere, RVP
I have never seen that group in action together, but I think there is enough quality there.
The next step now is to solve the wide positions, where only Sagna is of equivalent quality to the spinal players.

And, aside from Mertesacker and maybe Rosicky, we don't have good back ups. Couple that with inferior wide players, we'll quickly revert to type as soon as two or three of them get injured.

Qwiss

General Mirth wrote:
Claudius wrote:
I'm actually relatively confident with a spine of:
Szczesny, Vermaelen, Koscielny, Song, Arteta, Wilshere, RVP
I have never seen that group in action together, but I think there is enough quality there.
The next step now is to solve the wide positions, where only Sagna is of equivalent quality to the spinal players.

And, aside from Mertesacker and maybe Rosicky, we don't have good back ups. Couple that with inferior wide players, we'll quickly revert to type as soon as two or three of them get injured.

If you say Podolski is first choice on the left then I think Theo on the right is fine with Ox, Gervinho, Miyachi and maybe Benayoun as back ups. Plenty there to keep it fresh. I wouldn't say no to someone better but i think there are other areas we can upgrade more easily.

Biggest lack of back up has been for RVP. We need another striker even with Podolski at the club. If Villa go down I'd love to sign Darren Bent.

Klaus

Bent's a decent shout. He's an Arsenal fan too, isn't he?

Villa paid through the nose for him though. I think he'll be expensive even if they have the incentive to get him off the wage bill.

Qwiss

They wont get much more than £10m for them if they're relegated. Probably has a clause in there too. Its all idle speculation but I'd love a player like that to give Robin a rest sometimes and to come on in games. A pure striker, someone who just sniffs out goals and isn't concerned with all that tippy tappy. Plus I think we've seen with Arteta the benefit of getting in a player with that much PL experience who's always been just a slight notch below the CL teams.

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