The Aaron Ramsey Player Thread: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

The Aaron Ramsey Player Thread

sabret00the

When we had Cesc and Jack together. We looked worse in midfield minus Jack than we did minus Cesc. That was because in his debut season Jack had

y va marquer wrote:
the presence of mind or experience to run the game from midfield

That's not a question of ability, that's mentality. You don't grow that, you're born with that.

y va marquer

sabret00the wrote:
When we had Cesc and Jack together. We looked worse in midfield minus Jack than we did minus Cesc. That was because in his debut season Jack had

y va marquer wrote:
the presence of mind or experience to run the game from midfield
That's not a question of ability, that's mentality. You don't grow that, you're born with that.

You're not born with experience.
Without any real experience of shouldering that level of responsibilty it's not unusual that someone would not make the right decisions particularly in a set-up as disorganised and unbalanced as ours was yesterday.

IBL

A 21 year old playing in the toughest position on the pitch a year behind in his development - all things considered I think he's done ok.

As mentioned already the ideas and general play is correct, just lacking the execution. Definitely has the talent, his fitness has improved too of late, just a matter of time until he puts it all together.

redwhiteAustrian

Ramsey an 'inverted' Denilson?
What the hell Dula???

Biggus

Typical misdirected lashing out at a young player after another disaster.

We're managed by a fucking cretin who thinks that tac-tics are little sweets which come in clear boxes and who wouldn't spend to get his gran a lifesaving operation.
So who do we pick on this week- Ramsey.

Woolwichgooner

I do like Ramsey but i have to be honest, he is our worst midfielder, I pray for the return of diaby and wilshere.

He has been back from injury for over a year, stick him on the wing or at rb (he can play there) so he can learn the basics .

Qwiss

Diaby isn't half the player Ramsey is. And thats right now, nevermind as Ramsey develops.

sabret00the

y va marquer wrote:
sabret00the wrote:
When we had Cesc and Jack together. We looked worse in midfield minus Jack than we did minus Cesc. That was because in his debut season Jack had That's not a question of ability, that's mentality. You don't grow that, you're born with that.

You're not born with experience.
Without any real experience of shouldering that level of responsibilty it's not unusual that someone would not make the right decisions particularly in a set-up as disorganised and unbalanced as ours was yesterday.

Ramsey's experience even now outweighs that of Wilshere and yet Wilshere is streets ahead.

Claudius

That's unfair, Saber. We knew Wilshere was better even before he'd joined the senior team.
What is wrong with Wenger? Overplays Ramsey. Doesn't give Oxlade enough opportunities. Puts faith in a gimpy Gibbs. He used to be known for strength in youth development

Mirth

sabret00the wrote:
y va marquer wrote:
You're not born with experience.
Without any real experience of shouldering that level of responsibilty it's not unusual that someone would not make the right decisions particularly in a set-up as disorganised and unbalanced as ours was yesterday.

Ramsey's experience even now outweighs that of Wilshere and yet Wilshere is streets ahead.

Debatable, this is the first time in his career Ramsey's playing on a regular basis on top of recovering from a broken leg.

Of course, Wilshere probably is the more talented of the two but Ramsey's capable of better.

sabret00the

Caligula wrote:
That's unfair, Saber. We knew Wilshere was better even before he'd joined the senior team.
What is wrong with Wenger? Overplays Ramsey. Doesn't give Oxlade enough opportunities. Puts faith in a gimpy Gibbs. He used to be known for strength in youth development

My point is that all of the convenient excuses are in fact BS given the fact. We have no cover for Wilshere and haven't had all season. People think Wilshere is this pretty-boy-creative but he's not. He's a midfield general that gives up shape, presence and purpose. Our failure to have anything like him at our disposal has cost us dearly. And instead we have an abundance of luxury players.

redwhiteAustrian

Woolwichgooner wrote:
I do like Ramsey but i have to be honest, he is our worst midfielder, I pray for the return of diaby and wilshere.

He has been back from injury for over a year, stick him on the wing or at rb (he can play there) so he can learn the basics .

In no way is he our worst midfielder, not with guys like Benayoun or Ro-always sick when we need him-sicky in the squad. Then there's the ever injured Diaby, and of course Denilson who's still part of this club, albeit not here (thankfully).

The "he's been fit for over a year" comment is hugely debatable, since you can't quite compare the level of Cardiff City and Nottingham, with all due respect, to the level of the Premier League. For Arsenal, he's started his first game on March 19th against WBA and had to come off after 60 minutes, the first game he completed for us was against ManUre, where he's been sublime.

Not going to comment on your "put him on the wing" phrase - I hope you're taking the piss with that.

Woolwichgooner

qs! wrote:
Diaby isn't half the player Ramsey is. And thats right now, nevermind as Ramsey develops.

I 100% disagree. I do not want to get into a who is better than who argument, as its very childish, but Diaby in my eyes is what this team is lacking, he was excellent last season.

Ramsey on the other hand does not look like he should even be playing games for us.

sabret00the

General Mirth wrote:
sabret00the wrote:
Ramsey's experience even now outweighs that of Wilshere and yet Wilshere is streets ahead.

Debatable, this is the first time in his career Ramsey's playing on a regular basis on top of recovering from a broken leg.

Of course, Wilshere probably is the more talented of the two but Ramsey's capable of better.

Pre injury Wilshere was better than Pre injury Ramsey. That's not opinion, that's fact.

Biggus

But it remains to be seen how good post injury Wilshere will be.

RocktheCasbah

sabret00the wrote:
Caligula wrote:
That's unfair, Saber. We knew Wilshere was better even before he'd joined the senior team.
What is wrong with Wenger? Overplays Ramsey. Doesn't give Oxlade enough opportunities. Puts faith in a gimpy Gibbs. He used to be known for strength in youth development

My point is that all of the convenient excuses are in fact BS given the fact. We have no cover for Wilshere and haven't had all season. People think Wilshere is this pretty-boy-creative but he's not. He's a midfield general that gives up shape, presence and purpose. Our failure to have anything like him at our disposal has cost us dearly. And instead we have an abundance of luxury players.

Two things:

First, players like Jack Wilshere don't exactly grow on trees.

Two, we can talk about Wilshere being better than Ramsey all we want (he is). It won't change the fact that the two have basically been asked to do different jobs when they've had a run in the team. Or that our midfield general struggled when tasked with the more attacking role last season.

Also, Jack's better than most midfielders in the Premier League, I don't think that should be used as a stick to beat Aaron with.

sabret00the

RocktheCasbah wrote:
Two things:

First, players like Jack Wilshere don't exactly grow on trees.

Two, we can talk about Wilshere being better than Ramsey all we want (he is). It won't change the fact that the two have basically been asked to do different jobs when they've had a run in the team. Or that our midfield general struggled when tasked with the more attacking role last season.

Also, Jack's better than most midfielders in the Premier League, I don't think that should be used as a stick to beat Aaron with.

Of course Jackites don't grow on trees. That's fair enough to say, but we can't be ignorant about the different things the two players bring to our game. Ramsey isn't the player you go to war with, he's a Tom Hagen (Godfather analogy). The problem is that everyone including Wenger seems to be ignorant of the fact we've looked dodgy as fuck without Jack and our midfield hasn't looked nearly good enough. Despite this, we haven't looked for a player that bring the qualities of Jack's game that we've been missing, instead we've simply gone for different types of luxury players. Hoping and expecting miracles. If it means we can't play Ramsey because we're playing two players who combined are the closest thing we can get to what Jack offers us in midfield in regards to stability and presence, then we should sacrifice Ramsey for that means.

Coombs

It really is irrelevant to discuss "potential." Wenger's reign over the last few years has instilled a new kind of vision into pundits, players, and supporters alike. Instead of looking at players with our eyes, some of us (myself included) tend to look at players with our brains. The future of a player is not important, because the harsh reality is that a player's future is likely to not be with Arsenal. They leave. They'll always leave. Every other club is able to accept this but Arsenal.

Ramsey is not good enough now. We shouldn't really care how good he'll be later, as he probably won't even be playing for us. Glimmers of class are just that...glimmers. That should never be enough at any club, but it has become enough at Arsenal. Potential is for the reserves and quality is for the first team. It really is as simple as that.

Woolwichgooner

Well put coombs, so how would you resolve this problem quickly.

Most managers would just stick him on the bench and play Rosicky.

yuv

Klaus wrote:
qs! wrote:
Quality player.

That's it.

nothing more to say.

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