Can Jack replace Cesc?: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Can Jack replace Cesc?

Klaus

We didn't replace Bergkamp and Henry with like for like players, we did it by changing the team and we did it over time. That's all I'm saying. When people ask if Jack can replace Cesc I assume that they ask if he can do what Cesc does. And in that case the answer would have to be: No, I don't think he can. In the same way that I don't believe that van Persie can do what Henry did, or that Vermaelen can do what Campbell or Adams used to do.

What's absolutely clear to me is that, apart from maybe Ramsey, we don't have anyone in the current squad who is capable of dictating play and creating space for other players in the same was as Cesc does. And that includes Wilshere, who has based his best performances this season on quick movement across the field both on and off the ball.

Don Pacifico

Klaus wrote:
We didn't replace Bergkamp and Henry with like for like players, we did it by changing the team and we did it over time. That's all I'm saying. When people ask if Jack can replace Cesc I assume that they ask if he can do what Cesc does. And in that case the answer would have to be: No, I don't think he can. In the same way that I don't believe that van Persie can do what Henry did, or that Vermaelen can do what Campbell or Adams used to do.

But that's what I'm saying and it's why I don't believe the sky will fall in if we lose one player.

Whether Jack makes the same kind of contribution (which he probably won't) isn't an issue really, as I believe he has a good chance of making a similar impact on the team as Cesc.

Klaus

That's not replacing a player for me though. It's rather a way to compensate for the loss (which is what you're essentially doing every time a key player leaves). To replace someone implies that the new player matches the old one's strong points. Wilshere wouldn't replace Cesc in that sense any more than Adebayor replaced Henry.

Claudius

Wilshere is the closest thing to a replacement for Cesc. He still needs to add scoring to his game, but he's the truest midfield general we have outside our Catalan.

Qwiss

His judgement is amazing for his age. The way he knows when to stay deep and be available for a safe pass and when to burst forward into the box is near perfect already. Agree he should shoot more, he gets into positions where he can score from and where he's shown that in the reserves but for now theres no harm in him reigning it in a little in that respect and focussing on discipline, just as Cesc did for his first could of years before he added goals to his game.

kamikaze

a lot of it is down to physical development. fabregas didn't shoot as much when he was younger because he didnt have the physical power to get much on his shots. anyway, no one's going to replace fabregas like-for-like, but the key is that we have a certain amount of creativity, awareness, goalscoring ability, penetration and pace in our front four. how that's distributed is less important.

James

Wilshere plays the "quarterback" role superbly. The deep lying playmaker. It's frightening how good he is, at such a young age, with such inexperience. It's the position i've always called for Cesc to be playing in our formation, but i would be quite happy with Fabregas to continue to play in his current No.10 role whilst Jack's in the team, doing the job he is. I honestly think he could turn into a better complete midfielder than what Cesc is. He's got such great balance and agility, and covers the pitch so quickly. His appreciation of the ball is something else. I think he played one poor pass all game today, and even that was still a successful pass. Did he actually give it away at all?

Anyway, it's what Denilson's been instructed to do for us for a couple of seasons now. Jack just does it 10x better.

Famousno10

So, ok...if we do lose Cesc, get 35m+ for him and JW can fill his boots {and we actually spend the money} then that's actually positive, yes?

I'm actually starting to believe he is a better player than Cesc was at his age, he has a long way to go yet but to run the midfield in an Arsenal shirt at that age you have to be special.

Once he starts scoring, he'll be the best player we've had since, er, Cesc.

Kel Varnsen

Famous no 10 wrote:
So, ok...if we do lose Cesc, get 35m+ for him and JW can fill his boots {and we actually spend the money} then that's actually positive, yes?

fuck no. losing cesc will be a huge blow to this club. no matter what we do with the money.

wilshere played well today, but compared to a typical cesc performance, he was fairly average. i think people forget how good cesc really is. even when cesc has a poor game, he is still, usually, one of our 2-3 best players.

Lancelot

If our goal is to win something of note, depending on Jack at such a young age (no matter how good he will be) in any capacity after Cesc decides to leave shouldn't be considered as a positive, in my opinion. We've been there in the past and it had taken us a long time and a lot of effort before we finally arrived at the point where Fabregas can actually be relied upon throughout a season.

Wilshere has massive potential, but we need to use whatever amount of money we get from Barca to buy the best possible creative player. Then we can let young Jack steadily learn his trade under minimal pressure.

Don Pacifico

You raise a good point Lance but do we really think that will happen with Wenger in charge?

His (at times misplaced) faith in his starlets will forever make him feel a responsibility to give them a shot lest he 'kill' them. At least with Jack, he is actually starting to prove himself beyond mere potential.

As Zico said, his maturity (rash challenges aside) is what is really impressive. If anything, he could perhaps be a bit more aggressive and at times yesterday it felt like he was the only one willing to take responsibility for the game rather than passing (quite literally) the buck onto someone else.

Qwiss

When Cesc goes next summer I don't think we need a like for like midfield replacement at all. I'd much rather see the money spent on the forward line or the defence than an attacking midfielder.

Gurgen

By the way, Barca are broke. They're saying they need 3 years to recover financially. How on earth are they going to afford Fabregas?

Don Pacifico

Selling Ibrahimovic and maybe one other?

Despite their financial difficulties, they still managed to sign Villa and Mascherano, so I'm sure they'll find a way if they really want him (although they don't really need him at the moment, would purely be a PR stunt).

James

We couldn't replace Cesc directly, but i'd be confident that if the money was spent correctly (as qs puts it, on a strike line), then we could become a new side capable of being better than the current one.

JKreffer

Agreed. Like with previous big players, the team will most likely accomodate his loss as oppose to a straight swap with a new player.

Lancelot

Don Pacifico wrote:
...but do we really think that will happen with Wenger in charge?

His (at times misplaced) faith in his starlets will forever make him feel a responsibility to give them a shot lest he 'kill' them. At least with Jack, he is actually starting to prove himself beyond mere potential.

...

I agree, Don. In reality, we all know that there is no chance of that happening. Perhaps what others have said about strengthening our strike line with Cesc money is the best we can hope for since Le Boss likes to buy quality attacking players.

Kel Varnsen

James wrote:
We couldn't replace Cesc directly, but i'd be confident that if the money was spent correctly (as qs puts it, on a strike line), then we could become a new side capable of being better than the current one.

we could, but i don't think it's very likely. i think it would be extremely difficult finding a player who could actually improve this team relative to today's team, if fabregas leaves.

not to mention, would wenger be willing to even spend the money necessary to do so?

JKreffer

There is the real issue. Wenger is highly unlikely to stump up £40milliion bids for the Iniesta/Sneijders of this world, so I would expect him to look internally.

Personally, if this is most likely the case, I think we could do a lot worse than seeing Wilshere and Ramsey stake claims as they have shown themselves already to have influence on games from that central position. Obviously not to the level of Fabregas, but then I would argue it has only really been the last season and a half that Fabregas has really stepped up his level to what it is now. The others obviously have a certain amount of potential to work with in the mean time.

Claudius

Ideally, we keep both boys. Hypothetically speaking, our best attack in the near future might include Arshavin, Chamakh, Walcott, Wilshere and Fabregas. They have enough movement and goals amongst them.

The only upgrades that we might look to would be Chamakh (a better finisher) and Walcott (someone who isn't made of glass).

The truth is the maniac known as Wenger is actually building towards something. A goalie here, a defensive midfielder there, and we have a decent team. Sprinkle with better defensive coaching.

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