Can Jack replace Cesc?

Don Pacifico

How are they different as players?

How do they compare?

Can Jack surpass Cesc?

Pepe LeFrits

Sadly this is probably a pertinent question.

I think between Aaron and Jack, we're fine for the long term. It's just the present that makes me ill.

Don Pacifico

It's an interesting to thought to compare Aaron and Jack. You could also ask how they differ as players.

Assuming both develop as we hope, who is likely to be better and who is likely to have greater responsibility in the team? Also, who is likely to have the more offensive role?

Don Pacifico

I think he's slightly different from Ramsey in that he's not quite as dynamic on the ball and Aaron tends to carry the ball, driving at others, at least to a greater degree than Wilshere. A combo of the two in midfield could be very interesting with Aaron as a box-to-box player in the mould of Gerrard.

Wish I had a greater recall of Cesc as a teenager but back then my understanding of football was rather immature. The Chelsea game really inspired this thread though, as I was so impressed with the accomplished, mature performance Jack gave against such a big team, in a role that required offensive restraint. Eboue is eight or so years older and he could never dream of giving such a disciplined display.

James

Jack is the sort of player i hoped Denilson would be (he still could be, just not as good). Picking the ball up from defence, poppin' the ball off at all different ranges and angles, and being precise with it. He covers the pitch so quickly for a little lad, and also has that bite in his tackling. Centre Mid is definitely his best position for me, but i'd be a tad worried about him playing there in a different formation.

Don Pacifico

Would that be down to his size, James? Worth pointing out that he's the same height as Paul Scholes, who is remarkably similar in style although probably more aggressively offensive.

James

Part of the reason, although his size is also an incredible asset to him in a way it is for Messi. It would concern me at times though when it comes down to winning the midfield battle.

Ramsey is the Cesc replacement anyhow. Them two are far more alike in playing style than Jack & Cesc. A midfield of Ramsey/Wilshere...and a decent 'water carrier' sounds perfect to me.

AnthonyG

I really like Jack, but as far as Ramsey goes, I've not been this excited by a midfield prospect since Vieira, i.e. I include Cesc in that. I don't know if he'll necessarily be better (vague as that is), but he's more my kind of midfielder.

Pepe LeFrits

James wrote:
Ramsey is the Cesc replacement anyhow. Them two are far more alike in playing style than Jack & Cesc. A midfield of Ramsey/Wilshere...and a decent 'water carrier' sounds perfect to me.

Screw the water carrier, let's get another all rounder in!

James

Someone in the Vieira mould, and i'd bite your arm off Pepe

Pepe LeFrits

:drool:

That should be the aim. Someone as technically proficient as Wilshere and Ramsey who can hurt the opposition as well as defend.

Burnwinter

That the question is being asked says it all really. My answer's yes, it won't be like for like but I think we'll have what we need, or more precisely continue to have similar lacks.

Would never have dreamed of admitting that before the start of the season but Wilshere has proven to be far, far more ready to take on responsibility and excel than I expected.

Some other questions:

Will Ramsey return well from injury?
How will the club and Wenger react if (when) Fabregas departs?
What will Arsenal do to prevent the likes of Wilshere and Ramsey leaving to play out their careers at other clubs?

If either of these two end up doing a Cole on us ...

tazmania

Ramsey will be the Cesc replacement and Wilshere will be his complement. They're going to dominate for years to come

Burnwinter

Right well, so long as that's sorted then 😃

Biggus

We don't know how either of them will develop as players really, but one things for sure- I don't want another Fabregas.
Yes yes i know without him we look like Spuds, he is a wonderful player and I certainly don't fault him for its failure but for me and I think most people- this rotten sterile era will be forever linked in our minds with him and we'll spit in our pints when we mention "the Fabregas years".
A whole different style of play was introduced and a type of team built just to accommodate him and it of course failed because the Spanish style is totally unsuited to the PL.

As regards the English lads, well hope for the future must lie with them, as having grown up in the UK's football culture they will not play the same way regardless of Primorac.
Wouldn't it be wonderfully ironic if Wenger could achieve with the holy trinity of Gibbs Ramsey & Wilshere what he couldn't previously with that other English unholy trinity of Cole Bentley & Pennant.

kamikaze

it's wenger's fault that supporters like biggus might equate fabregas to the "spanish style" and possession football. if anything, he sticks out in that spain team as the one midfielder who really wants to accelerate play and drive forward towards goal. i firmly believe fabregas, if he had the choice, would prefer to play with more direct (but equally technical) players, like the invincibles, than a bunch of tippy-tappy sissies. blame the possession crap on wenger, not fabregas, because if you think we're changing our style of play when fabregas leaves, you're going to be disappointed.

Claudius

I'm quite happy with Wilshere taking over from Fabregas. Ideally, we would have them both directing play, but in the absence of Fabregas, Wilshere is the player most likely to be our playmaker. This guy looks as good as Fabregas did at 17. The key though, with Fabregas, is that he kept adding new facets to his game every year. Wilshere has to make sure he keeps working on

scoring
tackling
quarterbacking

Burnwinter

There is going to be the mother of all outcries when Fabregas leaves next summer and only 25% of his fee is immediately reinvested in the squad, with half of that 25% dedicated to a five year contract extension for Diaby.

Claudius

Given that, as Biggus notes, the team is built around Fabregas, we should send Wenger packing if he sells Fabregas and let someone else use the proceeds from the transfer. And stop this 4 3 3 nonsense if we are just going to use it to cover the deficiencies of our midfielders. If Fabregas goes, he should take all his groupies with him.

Our future manager can play a 4 4 2 with just Wilshere and Ramsey. Both men have enough offensive quality and defensive awareness to operate a 2 man central midfield. What they lack in size, they make up in commitment.

Burnwinter

Side note: the quote feature on this quick reply thing, which also handles multiple quotes, is fucking brilliant. All worship Pepe.

Zico wrote:
Our future manager can play a 4 4 2 with just Wilshere and Ramsey. Both men have enough offensive quality and defensive awareness to operate a 2 man central midfield. What they lack in size, they make up in commitment.

I was sceptical about Wilshere and seem to be being proven wrong. I feel an overwhelming scepticism about a Wilshere-Ramsey two man midfield, so perhaps I'll be overwhelmingly wrong about that 😃 Maybe in five years or so.